- One thing that Zito discovered regarding the Democratic collapse with white working class voters is the level of the destruction. I mean, it’s a total wipeout in the Appalachian areas. Out of 490 counties that dot this region, Clinton only won 21 of them, mostly because these places contained college campuses, which boosted the number of college liberals:
As someone who lives not very far from this area, this is spot on. When you ask people in this area about the national Democrats, whether the reality or not, the feeling is that they simply don't care at all about the issues they face. I had conversations with life-long Republicans who were listening to Sanders' speeches and agreeing with what he said, even if they felt he would not be able to do anything.
Since the DNC is wasting time on the recounts and not waging a war for the Senate Run-off in Louisiana, the next election that matters is in November 2017, two governors, a bunch of mayoral seats and the NJ state legislature.
The DNC has roughly 14 months to get its shit together and then start running for Congress and the state legislatures.
horrifyingly mean things not said Can we talk for a minute? As a mutherfucking "coastal elite" I'm about DONE being hectored and blamed and pilloried and lambasted and criticized and concern-trolled and otherwise dragged through the mud because of the way OTHER PEOPLE voted. I can't vote in your fucking elections. I can't choose your fucking candidates. I can't buy your fucking coal, I had nothing to do with your fucking plant closures, and you know what? You fuckers bought it, you paid for it, eat a dick. Tell me why - as an interested liberal, whose family goes back to Bastrop County, TX, who has worked minimum wage jobs, who has done physical labor, who grew up on food stamps, whose ancestral homeland is the property crime capital of the nation, whose childhood was surrounded by indian reservations, why I should give the FIRST FUCK about fucking appalachia. 'cuz you know what? I'm pretty much at a "twist in the fucking wind, you racist, reactionary shitheads. You'll be fucking dead soon."
From a philosophical standpoint? They voted for Trump, an outcome for many people that is unexpected and unwelcome. Now people are predicting years of harsh times ahead, from tax issues to healthcare issues to funding for things like roads, schools, and who knows what else. If people in rural areas feeling left out led to them voting for Trump, an outcome that is seen as unfavorable by Democrats and liberals, it's something worth looking into. Much in the same way Democrats and liberals express a desire that Republicans look into the needs and concerns of minority and women. Our goal as a country is to help each other not just live well, but to thrive and prosper. To alleviate suffering and hardship whenever, whereever, and however possible. On a day when you're not frustrated and feeling like you're being talked down to, do you honestly think you'd look at others and say "Let them suffer?" You're a good man, so I know you wouldn't. We all make mistakes. Small, big. Some with short term consequences, some with long term consequences. Life's hard enough as it is without us damning and condemning each other.why I should give the FIRST FUCK about fucking appalachia
Because there are thirty-seven Congressional Districts in Appalachia. And 16 Senate seats. Look, I'm an American who still loves the potential of this country. I grew up in Mediocreville, lived in a car with nothing to my name, and ended up in good shape because this place does still sort-of work. I am a Liberal because I think we need to invest more in the bottom tiers of the country's population and make a bigger middle class. It's the Middle Class people who buy stuff, start businesses, pay taxes, support the housing markets and in general make the economy solid. I think the Democrats, for all the shit they have put me through over the last 16+ years are the best choice for making the place better for the middle class... and I am one of those people so this is a bit self serving, true. We cannot do shit on the left until we get some political power. The left gave the fuck up on a lot of "Flyover Country" and now they don't have the House, they don't have the Senate and they only control 26% of the state legislatures. In 2006, the left and the Democrats had one of their best elections EVER in my life time and threw it all away. Now they are barely hanging on and Chief Justice Roberts is going to get his majority court to roll back regulations and Trump is going to allow his buddies to deny climate change, pave over the environment, try to sell the national parks and fuck over the unions, what few we have left that are worth fighting for. If guys like us ever want to see a left-ish government at the national level, that means that the DNC and the Democrats have to start fighting for the narrative in all 50 states, not just the coasts and swing states, because that shit just cost us. I think that Trump and the people he is putting in the cabinet are going to fuck over the US economy. The thing about recessions? TV still gets watched because it is cheap if not free. People still have babies because sex is a cheap form of recreation. People still need health care. Guys like you and I are going to be fine, but what about those around us? True to my word to go offline and do something, I went to a state meeting this weekend. Full of people still in shock over Trump. I listened to whiny bullshit for 45 minutes, then got my chance to stand up. I asked what we are going to do to vet Trump's Supreme Court Nominee. Silence. I asked if there was going to be a campaign to fight for ACA. Silence. I asked if there was a program started to start taking back the state houses here. I was told that was not worth it. These people are not the coastal elites, they are the people who should be working to promote the Dem's in state, find candidates, fund them, support them and knock on doors for them. And no plans, nothing. Maybe the people with the plans are hitting the books somewhere else, but fuck me, man. This funk has to end now. The Democrats have less than two years to get their shit together. They catch a break in 2017, but the RNC has to smell blood in the water over the 23 Senate seats the Dem's have to fight over in 2018. If the Democrats want to fight for the Senate and pick up the three seats they need, they need to fight in red states, all the same fighting to keep their advantage in the states that just went Trump: WV, PA, VA, MT, MO for example. The DNC cannot lose ANY seats. So, they better start recruiting and building. Then the Dems have to win again in 2020 to fight the Gerrymandering nonsense and redistricting. That is two hard, rough, elections coming up, and we may have the headwinds of a Trump scandal or twelve to help, but that ground work needs to start soon. The Recount, btw is bullshit and not going to change anything; that money and effort needs to go to Louisiana. BTW, only two people in that meeting even knew there was a run off in LA. What we have on the left in the US is not a "coastal elite" problem, and I'm sorry you took it that way. What we have is a distinctly cowardly leadership that is afraid of pulling out the brass knuckles and fighting. But then again we here on Hubski are 50-60 people. At the end of the day we don't matter for shit outside of our hugbox either. Hell dude I'm know as the "liberal science guy from California" in my city councilman's office. As far as they are concerned I am a coastal elite. I want my side to start winning elections, and right now all people are doing is pointing fingers. There is NO national level fight for the Louisiana Senate Seat; the last time the Senate was 51-50 we get a moderate Republican to switch sides. Good luck pulling that off with a 52-48 split. Waiting 20 years for all the baby boomers to die is not an option for me; there may not be anything worth saving by then and besides I'll either be too old or dead by then. The way you win is to fight for it. Maybe these articles will get more links, rise in the SEO shit and strike a chord with the people who need to get the kick in the pants.Tell me why - as an interested liberal, whose family goes back to Bastrop County, TX, who has worked minimum wage jobs, who has done physical labor, who grew up on food stamps, whose ancestral homeland is the property crime capital of the nation, whose childhood was surrounded by indian reservations, why I should give the FIRST FUCK about fucking appalachia.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah fuckin' blah. LOOK I give money. I contribute to culture. I make the arguments. I financially support the candidates (FUCKING OUT OF STATE CANDIDATES). Blah blah blah blah "The left gave the fuck up on a lot of "Flyover Country" and now they don't have the House, they don't have the Senate and they only control 26% of the state legislatures" EAT A FUCKING DICK. This has been said so many times it's like the fuckin' koreans and their goddamn breath-stealing fans. "The Left gave up on Flyover Country." What the fuck does that even mean? Does that mean, like, when every liberal under the sun petitioned Scott Fucking Walker about unions despite the fact that we're pretty much never in Wisconsin? Does that mean giving to Planned Parenthood despite the fact that we're not young, not female, not pregnant and have absolutely zero difficulty pointing to eighteen places within a ten mile radius that perform abortions? Does that mean bussing to fucking New Orleans to help rebuild after Katrina? Because that's how the Left gave up on "Flyover Country." Meanwhile the shows we're showing you don't represent your values, the food we eat is somehow offensive to your deep-fried ass, the music we play offends your pedal steel heart and the fact that you fucks consistently vote against women, black people and the poor is somehow OUR FUCKING FAULT. So look. Y'all can pick your own fucking candidates, with your own fucking money, and twist in your own fucking wind. And yeah - the Republicans are going to take it all. Here's the difference: you shitheads wanted this. Us "coastal elites?" We voted for what we wanted, clear and simple, and got everything we wanted locally, clear and simple, and the values we represent, the values we live, the values we put forth? The ones that you're pissed off because somehow, we "abandoned" you? Who's doing the abandoning, shithead? Sure. Win some fucking elections. But you know what? If we don't know how to win YOUR fucking elections for you, STOP BLAMING US FOR TRYING. I am legitimately sick of this shit. Because honestly? I can continue to fly the fuck over your country. Here, look: I can paint the problem with the United States in one fucking step: 1) Insist that homeownership is the key to happiness and increase accessibility to homeownership for all Here, watch what happens next: 2) Watch housing prices increase due to easy access to ownership 3) Watch urban mobility go down due to lack of fluidity within housing 4) Watch cities and towns become more vulnerable to shock when industry changes because people are trapped in their houses 5) Watch blight increase as foreclosures replace tenant changeover; watch the savings of homeowners go to (coastal) banks, watch places without the ability to adapt to change (rural areas) become skeletonized wastelands while everyone of means bolts to the cities, where all the money is JP Morgan Chase: NY, NY Bank of America: Charlotte, NC Citigroup: NY, NY Wells Fargo: San Francisco, CA US Bankcorp: Minneapolis, MN Bank of NY Mellon: NY, NY PNC Financial: Pittsburgh, PA Capital One: VA HSBC North America: NY, NY TD Bank of America: Cherry Hill, NJ __________________________________________ Know what? I want your side to start winning elections, too. But you're not going to. You're stupid fucking rednecks. Sure - not all of you. But enough of you. And you know what? Every time we try and help out the rest of you ungrateful little shits? We're not helpful enough. "What's the matter with Kansas?" It's a fucking shithole full of ignorant rednecks that want to go back to the barefoot, pregnant and syphilis days, duh. And that's why everyone with half a fucking clue moves away, and that's why your population is collapsing, and that's why there's nobody left to work the farm, and that's why you have a sea of fucking Walmarts instead of culture. Because you've been screaming at the top of your lungs you want it that way since nineteen diggity two. But hold the fucking phone if we listen.
Map Those lonely, tiny blue polygons drowning in red in the south and midwest? Cartogram They're where the people are, and they're lonely blue islands every election, and they don't matter because of gerrymandering, which I know you know because you reminded me last time I got a little misanthropic.Know what? I want your side to start winning elections, too. But you're not going to. You're stupid fucking rednecks. Sure - not all of you. But enough of you. And you know what? Every time we try and help out the rest of you ungrateful little shits? We're not helpful enough. "What's the matter with Kansas?" It's a fucking shithole full of ignorant rednecks that want to go back to the barefoot, pregnant and syphilis days, duh. And that's why everyone with half a fucking clue moves away, and that's why your population is collapsing, and that's why there's nobody left to work the farm, and that's why you have a sea of fucking Walmarts instead of culture.
And I know they're lonely blue islands. And I know they're fucked by gerrymandering. My peeps even hosted them for a month to try and stem the tide. But that year, Tom Fucking Delay was the House majority leader, elected by those same Texas shitheads. And here's the thing - I can vote blue as fuck, I can give money, I can fight the good fight, and my daughter still has to deal with fuckin' Texas Jesus riding a brontosaurus textbooks. Because in this battle? The issue is fucking rural contagion spills all over everybody else. A blue "coastal elite" helping a red state means better education, healthcare and workplace protections. A red state redneck influencing a blue state? That means fuckers in my bedroom. But what's the problem? A liberal "bubble." Except even this fuckhead argues that the fuckin' hillbillies are self-selecting for their own news sources despite being inundated by "the liberal mainstream media". It's still somehow the liberals' fault. Any media survey you care to look at will expound on the fact that conservatives are far more vulnerable to bias. So there comes a time when we need to stop blaming the cavalry for not doing enough. Fuckin' fight your own injuns for once and give us a call when there's a reason to bother. Because it's not like the Southern Strategy created the backwards racism the Republicans are exploiting. They just said it was okay.
So the liberal bubble conversation isn't the conversation I want to be having either, because I don't live in one of the blue islands, though I live adjacent to one. I'm most certainly not in a bubble unless it's a bubble with a population of one, and I didn't see this coming either. Here's the conversation I wish we were having: I voted for Clinton in the primary, despite being a socialist myself, because I figured the best chance of avoiding a Republican presidency was to go with the blue dog, because she should have been inoffensive to anyone on the right not foaming at the mouth and those of us to her left are voting defensively anyway. Then, like francopoli, I start hearing people with rebel flags on their trucks saying they kinda liked Sanders, but they hate Clinton because emails and her husband got a blowjob once in the 90s and whargarble. And I wrote that off during silly season because those guys have to be outliers and she's running against the comic relief so she's pretty much a sure thing, right? Then the comic relief won, and I'm talking about Marx with the guys with the rebel flags and loaning surveys of anarchism to a preacher who's taken an interest in Tolstoy and I'm wondering if we, coastal elites and upper middle class professional rednecks alike, missed a turn somewhere and the way to win is to be more radical rather than make concessions to the right. So that's the conversation I wish we were having, because in my little unenlightened corner of the world it seems like people are open to the far left or the far right, but not to the center.
Fuckin' goobster was a caucus representative for Sanders. He stomped THE SHIT out of Clinton in WA. Know who won the South? Fuckin' Clinton. Know who won the coasts, the Southwest and the great lakes? Fuckin' Sanders. So even those democrats in those red states, when given a choice between a crazy-haired socialist or the Woman We All Hate, went with the pantsuit. So we had that conversation. And it went just as poorly.
Kansas (a prior example of shitfucking redstate flyover rednecks) went to Sanders 67% to 32%. Switching gears for a minute, the Central Region went to Teamsters United in the IBT election. Redneck Fly Over America tried to vote in a Teamster that did his damnedest to force a strike at UPS a few years ago. The Eastern and Western Regions? They picked Hoffa.So even those democrats in those red states, when given a choice between a crazy-haired socialist or the Woman We All Hate, went with the pantsuit.
https://medium.com/@lessig/the-equal-protection-argument-against-winner-take-all-in-the-electoral-college-b09e8a49d777#.geh7rr555
Mic drop. There doesn't need to be another word said. You fucks got what you wanted. Now watch us "coastal elites" continue to drink clean water, take public transportation, to our jobs that provide us with healthcare and 401k plans. Have fun rotting in your shitty little flyover state. We tried to help, but you didn't want it. Fine. Fuck off.
You and kleinbl00 are acting like children. Block me for all I care, but the fact of the matter is that taking revelry in the impending hardships of the elderly, children, and the economically vulnerable just because you're upset with the election results is completely beyond shameful. Whether you think people deserve such hardships or not is besides the point. Either way, it looks like your sense of humanity is starting to slip away. I suggest you get a grip on it.
Fuckin' A. Some of us have muslim friends facing deportation. Some of us have friends in danger of losing their healthcare. Some of us are seeing our tax dollars flow into your redneck states. Some of us are seeing your representatives trying to abolish our national parks. Your way. Our way. Deserve? Deserve's got nuthin' to do with it. The only question at hand is how fucking bad do you need it before you see sense. We thought maybe "America under Hoover" was bad enough. Apparently you're going for "The Panjshir under the Taliban."
You can play the hardship game and you can play the "my friends and peers are vulnerable cause x" game. I guarantee you that if I showed you my cards, I'd win handedly. I will not play that game though, because my friends and peers are not token statistics to be used for an internet pissing match. Rest assured you and I have very similar concerns. Rest assured you and I have equal right to be upset. Rest assured that I am fucking terrified of tomorrow and the next year and what follows after. Rest assured I'm wracking my brain and talking to people to figure out where and how I can help, because I will not stand idly by and complain if there's even the smallest thing that I can do. Very soon, there will be even more good children going hungry through no fault of their own. There will be even more people unable to get the healthcare they need through no fault of their own. There will be even more people struggling to keep their jobs, their homes, their families. Here. There. Everywhere. Go ahead. Be angry. Be scared. Join the club. I've been here for years, handing out coffee and smiles. Help where you can, or do nothing. I'm not your mother so I won't tell you what to do. But know this, to say "good riddence, those people over there deserve it" shows a callousness and lack of compassion that is concerning at best. The same callousness and lack of compassion that you so easily accuse others of having. I'll see you in Pubski on Wednesday. I'm done for today.
Right. An "internet pissing match". You are really woefully uninformed on the policies of the people Trump has appointed, aren't you? Choosing to be the ignorant liberal is no longer a viable position in Neo-America. The only "callousness" shown by anyone, is the callousness of the flyover states towards every single person the planet who isn't white, American, and male. You guys got what you wanted. Enjoy it!
Dude. What the fuck? You, some of the local intellectual elite (and this is a pretty intellectual forum), are going to fight over politics? Are you crazy? I get it. Life might start to suck for you like I could never imagine. I don't know the whole situation, but from what I've skimmed over at kleinbl00's Hulk-level-angry comments, the country isn't falling apart and your lifes aren't in danger. So what the fuck are you involving yourself at? Why are you fighting over political differences in a place that's all about learning and treating each other with respect and dignity? Sure. It sucks. It's fucking terrible, the way things are going to happen out there. I hope I don't come off as condescending (there must be a better word for what I'm trying to say) just because I'm on the other side of the planet. I feel you. But. Why are you playing "us vs. them" when working together is the thing you need the most? Notice the extensive formatting? Remember how I barely ever use it? > You guys got what you wanted. > Some of us are seeing our tax dollars flow into your redneck states. For fuck's sake. Shitty hand's been dealt, and trust me - I've felt it all the way down here. Work with it. Work around it. And it's not like you've lost whatever skills and capabilities you've had before the wig hit the fan. So what the hell is stopping you from having a discussion NOW?
Excellent question. And the simple answer is, exhaustion. I've spent my entire life - since I was literally a child - working for equal rights for everyone; women, minorities, religions, disabled, artists, weirdos, etc. I just think every person has value and merit and equal protection under the Constitution. It's really simple: All men are created equal. That they have certain inalienable rights... I grew up in Los Angeles, and my family had to move because the smog was so bad there were whole weeks where we weren't allowed to go outside. Fighting hard against big businesses that didn't give a shit about the air, water, environment, or Earth, we fought for decades, and now Los Angeles has clean air, cars around the world have such low emissions levels that we had to invent new devices to sample them, and people everywhere enjoy environmental expectations of clean water and air. Women are now found in every single job, at every single level, and are respected for their minds, and not just their arm-candy value. Women get intelligent, science-based health care, in clean clinics, where their procedures are medically recognized, refined, standardized, and paid for by their health insurance. People can let their fashion freak flag fly, and get jobs, and not be discriminated against in the workplace. People suffering in other countries can come to America, take a vow, and become American. There is no other country in the world where you can become one of them. America embraces everyone with a shared set of values, and provides a path forward for those whose countries or societies prevent them from succeeding on their own merit. And on, and on, and on. THESE are the values I have fought for my entire fucking life. And every single one of these values was repudiated, spat upon, and openly mocked on November 8th. The smallest, most scared, most base, most hate-filled platform won easily. So fuck all of America between the Cascade Mountains and the Appalachians. It's my liberal, west coast, high tech salary that pays the taxes that keeps those motherfuckers in corn subsidies, welfare, food stamps, and provides the roads and bridges they drive on to go to their Klan meetings. The nipple they suck is MINE. So fuck em. No more freeloading off me. They voted against everything I believe in, and have worked for.
You're not going to give up on most of your life's work and ideals just because the election system in the US is screwed up, are you? 'Cause Hillary won the popular vote. I get it. It's depressing to this this kind of result take place. It's depressing to even see Donald as a candidate. But. You've fought hard for the freedom the US provides. You've said it yourself: you're an American. You're proud of being a part of that wonderfully-inclusive system. You've put effort to make it more inclusive, which is amazing. Will you really give up on that? Democracy is meant to represent everybody, saint or devil, good person or an asshole. That's what partaking in democracy means: to represent the people, whoever they are. You are the people. kleinbl00 is the people. rd95 is the people. Barack, Hillary and Donald are the people. Those guys, redneck Klan members? They're the people, too. They, just like you, have the right to be represented and their votes - counted. It would be nice to create a system which would only be operated by the morally right people, by the good people - but it's not possible. We have to include everybody or embrace that some people are better than others - and we both know that's not true. History has seen many examples of elitism of various groups of the exclusion of particular ones; none ended well. Look at the numbers. Popular vote: Donald - 62,513,667 / Hillary - 64,818,930. That's a shit ton of people voting for Trump, but - Hillary still won the popular vote. That tells me that there are people who can lead this country into a better future (as a people, not through a particular person). It's a shame their votes were ultimately in vain due to the way elections work in the US, but to me, it's a sign that there are reasonable people who care. But there always are. I know it might be aggravating to think about right now, but Trump's victory doesn't mean that those reasonable people have lost. If villains were ever to win, we'd live in a very, very different world right now, because there were always some bad people at the wheel, even in the US. But the truth is, there are no villians: there are only obstacles to overcome for people like you - for people like us, who would like to see this place better when we leave than when we came. You've done your part, and you've done it well. But does it mean you will stop fighting now? __________________________________________ P. S. So, apparently, kb has blocked me again. I don't care much, but these games get tiresome. kb: I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to goobster. I don't care about what you think on the state of American politics right now: you're so damn winded up that I could launch cows at walls off you, Medieval style. You don't like my style? Boo hoo. rd95 was right: get a grip on the shit that's going through your head before it goes too outside of your skull. People respect you highly here, and you going on a rampage in the comments isn't good for anyone. Find a constructive output to your anger. Somebody has to say it to someone who always has something to say.
You know I love you, man, and I truly enjoy hearing your perspective on the US, as a native Russian. Yes it does. For one simple reason, that I have harped on again and again and again: The Supreme Court. The Republicans blocked Obama's Supreme Court nominee because it would have provided a balanced Court. Now a genuine sociopath is going to appoint between 1 and 4 justices to the Court, and his handlers and advisors are chomping at the bit to get their highly politicized appointees in those seats. Which they CAN do, because our tri-cameral system has failed. The idea is that the Legislative, Judicial, and Executive branches of the government balance each other out, so none of them can tilt the scales too far out of whack. There are checks and balances. Unfortunately, activist anti-Constitution Republicans now control the Executive and the Legislative branches completely, and are about to appoint the people who balance the Judicial branch. This is a problem because they can appoint literally anyone they want to without any argument or opportunity for any vetting by anyone else. The system has broken, and now there are three human beings who will determine how all law enforcement happens in the USA for the rest of my lifetime. And all three of these people are publicly on record as being diametrically opposed to everything I stand for. Here's a look at how the Supreme Court can become a political tool of the Republican party within the next six months. The decisions this new Supreme Court will be tasked with hearing, will be defined by a stack of Republican-backed "test cases" that they have had sitting on their desks, waiting for a "friendly" Supreme Court to hear. The man behind many of these test cases - a single, individual lawyer, who will decide how law is enforced in the US for the rest of my life - is a conservative Christian Texan lawyer who believes the US is suffering god's wrath because of fags. (My shorthand interpretation. But you can listen to an easy-to-consume podcast on Edward Blum's history with test cases and the Supreme Court.) THAT is why I am done helping. The game is over. We lost. I just don't have the energy or soul left to fight all these battles again. I know it might be aggravating to think about right now, but Trump's victory doesn't mean that those reasonable people have lost.
Well, I can see how it can be tempting to lay your arms down. It's certainly appalling, the way things went and promise to go still. I can't blame you for feeling defeated. I'll just say this. If it was ever true that people could lose, we'd still live in tribal system, if that. In my naive idealism, I see it as just another step on the path of history - an unpleasant step, one we'd all would've liked to avoid in the first place, but a step nonetheless. Perhaps you're the person who'd understand me best when I say that there are no failures or successes - only the ways turn out, for better or worse. To lay down or to keep going in the face of adversity is a choice everybody makes, and I can't blame you for feeling like it's your time to step away from fighting. It's a tough battle, it's exhausting, it's aggravating, terrifying, sometimes all at once. But I don't feel like you've lost. Not it the sense of "There's nothing that can be done", anyway. Maybe you're right in thinking that it's not your fight. But please, for the love of all good and holy: don't let good people suffer as a result. It's enough that about half of the US has to go through every day with the notion of "President Trump" on their shoulders already. Please, don't let this turn into a fight among people who are already suffering from fear, anger or lack of strength.The game is over. We lost. I just don't have the energy or soul left to fight all these battles again.
You're missing the entire gist of the discussion - that somehow, issues with the Democratic party in Appalachia are the problem of the Democratic party elsewhere, and that obviously, the Democrats would have won if only they considered sucking redneck white boy cock. This is a trope that has been trotted out since Dukakis. The fact of the matter is, Appalachia voted for Democrats when Democrats were all about keeping Darkie down. But since LBJ and the Civil Rights Act, Appalachia has been about whoever will keep them ahead of the Negros. And nothing else fucking matters. Demonstrably. Over the past 50 fucking years. Edit: don't block someone first and expect to not get blocked in return. PS. Take your meds.
I get that that's the message in all of these pieces but a lot of the pieces that I've read were written by those coastal elites - so it's more your peers pointing to problems in other places instead of us saying you abandoned us. In my boots on the ground opinion (and I'm mixing several responses in one so forgive me if this is tangential to this thread), you're right, you're not responsible for us. It's not your duty to send us money, it's not your duty to spend your time, and it's not your duty to bus down here and make change. Because I do believe that even the liberal among us are still states rights people, and it's our duty to make our states right. Now, we still have a lot of racists and bigots and close minded people around here - I hang out with them every holiday - and we know that their stances run deep. But they share our blood and we share their history and our salvation is tied up in one another. It's why we like our bibles down here - we're a nation whose tradition of division and hate is so deep in our being that the only solution is to be born again wholly in love, and we'll latch on to whatever we can to help show us how to do that. So, that's my ramble.
This is due in no small part that the educated and people of means tend to migrate from the country to the city. It's a trend that dates to the introduction of cities. As listed above, the trend/trap of homeownership has increased the static friction of the nomadic American workforce; one must have more means in order to relocate than before, which has caused a greater number of people to be trapped. Consider: all the migrants photographed fleeing the Dust Bowl were people who had nothing to lose. We now have an entire generation of homeowners who may or may not live near work. And many of these people do not view their homelands as irredeemable shitholes. I grew up in rural New Mexico and I have plenty of acquaintances still there who think it's awesome, that everybody there is awesome, and life is good... despite the fact that whenever I head home I get to hear about another murder-suicide. Thus, we get these narratives about how "the heartland" isn't an irredeemable shithole because not everyone had a terrible childhood and the loss of the family farm and the vanishing way of life of the coal miner because people want to have their cake and eat it, too - they want their Whole Foods and Pottery Barn lifestyle to be amenable to Walmart and Winco. And sure. On one side it is. If it weren't for the fact that I'm now staring down the barrel of Betsy De Vos as Education Secretary, for example, I'd have no animosity for them. But I know down to my DNA that they don't think their salvation is tied up in me.I get that that's the message in all of these pieces but a lot of the pieces that I've read were written by those coastal elites - so it's more your peers pointing to problems in other places instead of us saying you abandoned us.
I forgot about the housing, that was interesting to learn. I'm pretty relentlessly optimistic - also relatively young - and my area is appalachia and not the heartland, but I don't think they're irredeemable. I suffer no illusions that change will come quickly or be embraced without trouble, but my state was once deep red and now runs as a swing state, so can't help believe change is possible - if not exceptionally slow. And yeah, I've met plenty of people who don't get shared salvation - church going folk who chant that they are full of sin but still think they're on moral high ground - and I don't expect much from them. But there are all kinds of people down here who get it and so many of them are out there talking to each other, having this conversation about what it will take to create unification and understanding. I don't know, I'm just hopeful. There was a lot of anger in this thread, so if someone made it this far I just wanted to share that with them.
Believe it or not, I'm hopeful, too. This style of thinking, though, is hopeful in the wrong direction. If we all hope that the Democratic Party will somehow triangulate towards a direction that will attract the Confederate flag-waving, church-voting, outsider-hating ruralist vote despite their utter failure to do so since '68, then we will be disappointed over and over and over again. If we instead hope that those who are most impacted by the regressive policies of the Republican Party on their home states rally to defend themselves, the result is likely to be a lot more lasting. My wife was broken up on election night. She wished she could have done more. She regretted not, for example, traveling to the Midwest to speak the good fight for Clinton. I looked at her and said "You don't really think they'd listen to YOU, do you?" Hillary Clinton carpetbagger has a disturbing number of hits.
Oh sure, but that's the shared salvation thing - the "Confederate flag-waving, church-voting, outsider-hating ruralist" aren't really synonymous with the "love your neighbor" crowd so I don't think they're coming over any time soon, but there are a whole lot of people living in the grey who want to sit down and find a better way.
Thanks! My wife does this thing where she kills herself to make other people happy. She tells herself that it's worth it, that she's making someone else's day better and so I always ask her, "if you're making someone else happy at the expense of your own happiness, what's the net benefit to the world?" That's the salvation thing - if the effort of saving other people wounds you to immobilization, then is the cost of their salvation too great? To me it is and so we focus on people who understand we all must rise together - and if you have to take a step back to rise up, then that's what must be done. Sorry, that's lecture-y. I'm probably writing that more for the wife than for you. With that apology in mind I'm going to continue to lecture because I've been listening a lot, here and in my own communities, and find it easier to organize thoughts when I write them to someone. We've been talking about this stuff in a lot of my communities. These communities - which generally revolve around service, religion, or southernness - have a tendency to idealize the values of faith and hope. In these communities I'm trying to give people their time and their space to grieve and come to terms with this new reality, but the optimist in me just want to grab them and slap them and wake them up to the fact that they just got everything they've been praying for. Those that ask for faith have been given such massive doubt that the only option they have at this point is to believe in something that seems impossible. Those that ask for hope have been give such relentless despair that only hope can help to prop them up. Doubt is the fire of the forge of faith, despair the fire in the forge hope, and we need clear minded craftsmen who can pull something beautiful from all the fires burning bright. Alright, that last part was a bit over the top, but thanks for reading.
Oh fuck that about the national parks. Any idea who I could donate to to help make sure that doesn't happen?
Nobody. They are currently prevented from drilling and mining in national parks due to legal precedents set by the Supreme Court. Once those are cleared out of the way (I'm guessing around October 2017, after the new Supreme Court takes on Roe v Wade and reinforces Citizen's United), the next on the block is the dissolution of the National Park System. This is part of the job creation plan. Open up new lands for drilling, mining, logging, etc.
I have absolutely no idea. And that's just the thing: we're in a crazy new place where we have no firm grasp of what could happen next. The Republicans are two million votes down but still claiming a mandate and nobody has ever revoked a national park before, but we've never had a president this unqualified before. I know what I can do locally. I can buttress up my local organizations. But I tell you what - for all external appearances, we're dialed. Rob Bishop? 65% of the vote. When you look at the candidate the Dems fielded, it isn't particularly surprising.
I think it is worth noting that there is a context in which it doesn't matter how you feel about being attacked in op-eds. Yes, there is a chunk of the left dragging your name through the mud. Yes, you have a right to get pissed off about it. Thing is, they are talking about you, not at you. They are testing the waters to see if they can work around you whatsoever. My guess is they can't... ...but I don't feel bad for trying."What's the matter with Kansas?" It's a fucking shithole full of ignorant rednecks that want to go back to the barefoot, pregnant and syphilis days, duh. And that's why everyone with half a fucking clue moves away, and that's why your population is collapsing, and that's why there's nobody left to work the farm, and that's why you have a sea of fucking Walmarts instead of culture.
I'll wade my way in here at the top level comment. My two cents is the blame isn't intended to be on you or you collectively (as you and peers like you). I see it as aimed at Democratic strategists. You mentioned Scott Walker in another comment. The Democratic Party put up a bland candidate against him twice. Is it your fault there wasn't someone better? Certainly not. Was it mine? As a Wisconsin resident, maybe more blame falls my way, but there isn't much I can do, either. I see the blame falling on the party leadership. At my company we have contingency plans and career development plans. If my manager retires or takes a different position, we know how to fill that gap. If I (as a more senior employee) leave the company, there are plans in place to ensure key work still gets done. Where is that in the DNC? Who is looking in state houses for the next Congressperson? Who is looking in the House for the next Senator? Is anyone grooming people for the next Governor rnlr race? It seems like the answer is "nobody." And I think that's the coastal elite criticism. The party has an intent but no plan.As a mutherfucking "coastal elite" I'm about DONE being hectored and blamed and pilloried and lambasted and criticized and concern-trolled and otherwise dragged through the mud because of the way OTHER PEOPLE voted.
Come on in. The water's scalding. Yes. These mysterious, Machiavellian, Bilderberg "strategists." Who are they, exactly? What is their power? Is it Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Chair of the DNC from 2011 until the Bernie Bros got pissed? Donna Brazile? She who leaked that maybe somebody from Flint might ask about water at the debates? Terry McCauliffe, who sank Howard Dean? I mean, they're shady: But where was this shadowy cabal when Gavin "shots fired" Newsom decided that it was time for gay marriage to be legal 11 years before the country finally got around to it? Did they somehow think Cruz Bustamante was a better bet than Gray Davis? You think those fuckers saw Obama coming? Here's what I know. I was talking to my respresentative about a massive solar energy initiative fifteen fucking years ago. He's governor now. That shit died in committee again and again and again and again and again. What moved forward? The "stop harassing my grandma during dinner" act. The "stop waking up my dog with Viagra commercials" act. And, of course, the "keep a husband in Florida from saying goodbye to his braindead wife" act. Lemme say something. I've been voting since '92. I cannot remember a time when politics of any kind hasn't been a variation on "what can we squeak past those benighted hicks in the flyover states." That's eight years of Clinton, eight years of Bush, and eight years of Obama during which some jackass from a place I don't want to visit was constantly and endlessly doing something to fuck up my life. Fucking up yours worse? Sure. Condolences. But Washington and Oregon haven't gone Republican since Reagan. California hasn't gone Republican since Bush 1. I helped design this thing. Flew out there in 2006. Got to ride from the airport an hour and a half in a cab. Democrats had the House. Democrats had the Senate. And the driver knew I flew in from Seattle, and I had a ponytail down to the small of my back. He still spent 90 minutes railing against liberals, hippies and coastal elites... and then expected a tip. Then I get to the fucking store and discover that we're in a fight because one of my programmers accidentally slipped some Dixie Chicks into their mix and we were now officially one fuckup from fired. Whose fault is it? Someone else's clearly. "The strategists." "The coastal elites." "Those bubble-dwelling millennials." It certainly isn't the fact that the middle of the country values hating everyone else above their own self-interest. Somewhere there's an HL Mencken quote about how most people are perfectly satisfied to have everyone else was doing worse if they can't do better. But in looking for it, I found this: - Ezra Pound We mostly got our shit together out here where the oceans hit. Come join us. Or, you know, drag yourselves into the 21st century. Because for the 24 years of my political activity it's always been someone else's problem... and it's a problem that keeps getting worse.I'll wade my way in here at the top level comment.
My two cents is the blame isn't intended to be on you or you collectively (as you and peers like you). I see it as aimed at Democratic strategists.
He was right. The war had begun. Verbal bombs dropped-with one target in sight: the future of the Democratic Party. Dean was out for DNC blood, and Gore gladly went along for the ride. “Howard Dean was assassinated in broad daylight. Unlike Kennedy’s ‘grassy knoll,’ Dean’s killers are not hiding-it was the Democratic Party itself, and more specifically the Democratic Leadership Council, that successfully went after, and sabotaged his candidacy The DLC reacted with fury to [Dean] going all out to torpedo his momentum,” Naeem Mohaiemen correctly opined on Alternet.org following Dean’s presidential death. “Although Democratic nominees soon piled on the ‘bash-Dean’ bandwagon, earlier attacks were carried out by DLC operatives. There was even the smell of scandal when two top Democratic candidates were found sharing information about Dean in an attempt to slow him down.”
“A slave is one who waits for someone to come and free him.”
Would me moving to the coasts change anything? It would make Washington or New York a little bluer and Wisconsin a little redder. The "benighted hicks" would still be here, and they'd still be voting the same way. My life is pretty comfortable here. I have two different local coffee shops on the way to work, and there's a Starbucks when the occasion calls for it (e.g. Thanksgiving Day). The cost of living is pretty low, and if I go straight to work (and not detour for coffee) I go through one stop light and six stop signs. I'm not union, and while voted against Walker twice his actions haven't really hurt me. Realistically, I'm probably personally better off under Walker and the Republican houses. Here's what I've idly been trying to figure out since the election: if I wanted to be involved in picking the chair or party platforms or anything, how would I do that? Can I? Wikipedia says Debbie Wasswerman Schultz was picked by Obama. Is that that, or are more people involved? Are individuals? I genuinely don't know. Should I be going to one of these meetings? I'm not picturing a group of people sitting in offices rubbing their hands together and dictating how things are going to be next. That would actually be a relief. Instead I'm picturing the opposite: people not really sure what to do next, throwing something at the wall and looking around a conference room of blank faces, nobody sure if it's a good or bad idea or even how to evaluate if it's a good idea.Is it Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Chair of the DNC from 2011 until the Bernie Bros got pissed? Donna Brazile? She who leaked that maybe somebody from Flint might ask about water at the debates? Terry McCauliffe, who sank Howard Dean?
shadowy cabal
You think those fuckers saw Obama coming?
As an aside, Obama gave the Keynote at the 2004 Nominating Convention. He then spent 4 years as a Senator building a following. Of Course they say him coming.
Is that the kind of meeting you went to? I asked a couple friends how to get more involved, and they weren't really sure. This is the closest I've found that isn't phonebanking.
As a member of a recently lambasted ivory tower, it matters to me because the way those poor people vote directly affects my quality of life vis-a-vis, republican rulers of our shared government. It's a form of coercion that's described well by Ayn Rand actually. Pay off the bums so they leave you alone. To quote another author I love so much 'Once you pay danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane.'
1) Robert Byrd is dead, and no one's stepped in to fill his shoes yet. 2) Cotton on the roadside, cotton in the ditch | We all picked the cotton but we never got rich | Daddy was a veteran, a southern Democrat | They oughta get a rich man to vote like that | Song, song of the south | Sweet potato pie and I shut my mouth | Gone, gone with the wind | There ain't nobody looking back again | Well somebody told us Wall Street fell | But we were so poor that we couldn't tell | Cotton was short and the weeds were tall | But Mr. Roosevelt's a gonna save us all | Well momma got sick and daddy got down | The county got the farm and they moved to town | Pappa got a job with the TVA | He bought a washing machine and then a Chevrolet 3) Speaking of the TVA, public Internet service would be a fine, eventually self-funding, public works project.