A thought's lingered in my mind since steve's comment on Devac's 3questions:
Chatting with ThatFanficGuy this morning, this was enforced even more.
I came to realize you've really learned a lot while you've been alive, Hubski.
You also come from all walks of life. What language have you picked up?
What jargon, or coding, or foreign, or musical, or body language have you learned to adapt, conform, or pursue? When did you learn it?
How has this language enriched you? Limited you? Affected your relationships with those around you or your culture or your identity?
Do you sometimes think in this language, rather than your native tongue?
We speak Russian at home (went to Russian Sunday school for like 10 years of my life) and I would say I speak without a noticeable accent. I would be "outed" as a foreigner in Russia if I had to write something because my grammar is abysmal or by using a strange name for a thing. My #1 language is French (Quebecois and France French - I switch accents unconsciously depending on who I'm speaking to). Then I would say my english is pretty good considering I grew up in an all French society and I didn't speak a word until about 11 years old. Strangely, I learned it at the Ukrainian camp because all my friends started speaking english and it was either learn it or have no friends. If any of you guys watched my vlog, you can definitely notice I have a strange accent because I don't speak it very much in everyday life, even if I spend lots of time typing and reading on the internets. Learned 5 years of Italian in High School and we had pretty good teachers. I'm pretty average but it's a fun trick up my sleeve when meeting Italians. It's been a while now, but I'm good enough to watch Italian movies if the Italian subtitles are on. Learned some basic Polish while on my exchange semester: I can comfortably get around, order food, haggle at the markets and generally go along everyday life. I don't think I could sustain a conversation beyond the "where are you from, what do you do, what is your favorite food" platitudes, but it's a decent start :) I also understand Ukrainian fairly well: can't speak without muddling it up with Polish and Russian but after 3 years with my boyfriend and visiting his family there, my listening comprehension is good enough that I speak Russian and people reply in Ukrainian. I was pretty surprised, but people actually speak to each other like that there - in different languages but with 100% understanding on both sides! + learned like 2 words since my month in Vietnam. And people still don't understand 20% of the time. Tonal languages are haaard...
Eh... When people ask me, I only say j speak Russian,French and English because all else is negligible. I honestly feel sometimes like I have no "native" tongue because in no language I have significant mastery. I'd love to speak English like kleinbl00 , or Russian like Posner. I understand it all, but can't express myself fully in that manner. It kinda sucks. Master of none....
Speak two languages: bilingual. Speak three languages: trilingual. Speak one language: American. I am an American. ;-) They killed the Russian class in my High School when I was in 4th grade. My mother arranged for me to study Russian with the teacher's daughter that summer. I can only say that High School Russian is a hard damn thing for a 4th grader to learn during the summer. Growing up, Spanish was predominant but not only is it a dialect disavowed by both the Mexican and Castillian school, it's a dialect used by the locals to isolate the white folx. Spanish was actually a lot easier to understand in Los Angeles because it wasn't intended as exclusionary. I studied German in High School but any language you don't use regularly is a language you lose. I've never been proficient in anything but English. I can understand some spoken German and Spanish but not well enough to bother attempting to converse in it.
That's still hella impressive for an American! Especially considering how good you speak English. I spoke to similarly eloquent people in Russian and I'm always just jealous of the rich vocabulary, expressions and all they can transmit in a sentence. "Understanding" is not the same as being able to come up with the fancy words on the spot.
My Ukrainian contractor and his wife were finishing up building my new bathroom the other day, and I got to hang out and chat with them for about 3 hours. She (Valentina) was clearly Ukrainian, in look and accent. He sounds like he was from New Jersey. (In fact, I didn't know he was Ukrainian until I asked how the two of them met, and they said "in Ukraine!" And I asked Nick, "Oh! How long were you over there?" He laughed and - in his New Jersey accent - told me he was born there.) The Russian vs Ukrainian language divide can be hilarious. I have watched Ukrainians and Russians speak back and forth. The Ukrainian understands the Russian perfectly, but the Russian can't really understand the Ukrainian. It's bizarre. The only thing I can equate it to for my American friends is the difference between an American speaking to someone from Glasgow, or maybe the Australian Outback. The Aussie/Glaswegian understands the American perfectly, but the American gets lost easily, while still being able to understand some of words...
It's two distinct languages, not simply accents or dialects so I would say the difference is probably greater than American/Glasgow dialects. I have had the same discussion with my boyfriend because he claimed at first that Ukrainian was just more diverse and had more words so it was easier to understand the Russian roots (which is bs in my opinion). Here is what I think is happening: growing up in Ukraine, you cannot avoid being exposed to the Russian language on TV, around you etc... which you can't say for Ukrainian language in Russia. It just takes a little adaptation period before "getting" it, learning the basic verbs and then understanding is easy. I can say that because I experienced it myself. My first week I was having trouble but very fast something just clicks and it becomes fairly easy to get the jist. It probably helped we started in Kiev where people speak surjik (Russian/Ukrainian mixed dialect) and then moved on to Lviv where our hosts spoke pure Ukrainian. I think native Ukrainian speakers never have that moment so there is this common sentiment Russians are just not trying :(
Ooooh! Thank you! This really helps my understanding of the languages and their relation to each other. I appreciate it. The Slavic languages were too much for me... I was overwhelmed with Hungarian, so taking on another completely differently structured language was not going to fit into my brain. So I let my Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, and Serbian friends just do whatever their did in their languages, and I focused on my Hungarian.
It's not an opinion - it's a fact... ...and this is the reason. The languages are similar in origin, but one can't say with any sort of integrity that they're similar nowadays. I had a Belarussian friend (her language being one of the three Eastern Slavic languages, the other two being Russian and Ukrainian) speak to me in her native language (despite the fact that we both spoke perfect Russian), and it's indistinguishable to me who's never learned Belarussian. I can discern the written part of both languages, but me being correct on what I think it says is no better than chance. They do have similar roots and one can do fairly good figuring out the written speech, given linguistic intuition and fair knowledge of the roots themselves, but this doesn't make them any closer to each other.(which is bs in my opinion)
growing up in Ukraine, you cannot avoid being exposed to the Russian language on TV, around you etc... which you can't say for Ukrainian language in Russia.
I'm fascinated by languages and am looking to learn more. Right now, I'm up with Russian and English to have a conversation, German to ask for directions or tell that I'm hungry and Latin to tell that Romans thought that it's best to be the blacksmith of your own destiny. In the near future, I'm looking forward to learning Norwegian and Icelandic and finishing German to a conversational level. People keep asking me how I learned English so well. Truth is, I just absorbed what I heard and read because English is so interesting to me. Can't remember how it came to be, just that it did. My usage of English did both. I've switched to English for most of my personal needs, including inner dialogue and notes to self, because it's a concise language I enjoy speaking. Most of the conversations in my head I have in English, unless it's mandatory for them to be in Russian. That being said, I often find it difficult to explain certain concepts in Russian in real-life conversations since I mean to use an on-point English phrase to describe it, then stumble as I realize that I can't and spends seconds trying to find the appropriate Russian phrasing, which almost always comes out odd because I apply English structure and lexical equivalents to Russian. I read a lot of material in English simply because Russian has nowhere near enough the knowledge base easily available on many subjects, like human psychology and ludology (study of games and gaming). Overall, I find Russian media lacking in a lot of aspects - not the least of which is etiquette of conversation - so I naturally switched to English media for most of my needs. Now it's so natural to me that I once read a Wikipedia article and couldn't remember whether I read it in Russian or English. Through absorbing the language, I also came to absorb a lot of culture - mostly American, some British. With that, comes a certain disparity between me and my peers because of how different we see the world, and I find it very difficult to bridge the gap at times. Russian culture is in crisis at the moment, what with the distress of the USSR crumbling down still echoing in many aspects of Russian livelihood; which entails that a lot of enlightened ideas go past a lot of people's heads because those heads are burrowed into sand, waiting for the calamity to pass when, in fact, there is no calamity to wait over: only fear lingers vaguely but thickly.How has this language enriched you? Limited you?
How has it <...> [a]ffected your relationships with those around you or your culture or your identity?
Oh god, I know that feeling! Luckily most of my friends have that problem, too.That being said, I often find it difficult to explain certain concepts in Russian in real-life conversations since I mean to use an on-point English phrase to describe it, then stumble as I realize that I can't and spends seconds trying to find the appropriate Russian phrasing, which almost always comes out odd because I apply English structure and lexical equivalents to Russian.
Icelandic is a very awesome language. For a Norwegian it's so weird; when I hear it, I think I should be able to understand it. But I don't. At all.
Wow, lots of you guys speak German, I'm surprised. I thought the only people that learned German were the French and Finnish, lol (Dutch people don't count, they're basically Germans anways :P). I can speak German and English, understand a bit of Russian, and I did Latin as a "major" in school. I always joke that I learned more about German in Latin class than I did in German class, but it's true, really. Grammar and syntax are just so much clearer to me thanks to the systematic approach you take to translating these ancient texts. It's also handy for etymology! And a bit of french, of course. You gotta understand your neighbors, right? :)
You can add Poles, it's the most common choice for a third language (obligatory in junior and proper high school). It usually leaves a lot to be desired, but when talking to people under 30 you can bet that much more know basic German rather than Russian as their third language.Wow, lots of you guys speak German, I'm surprised. I thought the only people that learned German were the French and Finnish, lol (Dutch people don't count, they're basically Germans anways :P).
I'm native Dutch. During high school I had classes in 7 different languages: Dutch, English, German, French, Latin, Greek and even some Frisian. Because I was a nerdy kid who spent too much time on the Internet, English lessons were always easy-peasy for me in high school. I'd say I'm as close to native as I can be,because I will probably never pronounce "three threatening trees" right. Interestingly, I was taught British English (the 'proper' version, somewhere between BBC and Cockney) but since my time in Canada that has worn off. Now I'm closer to Dutch and American than I was to British English. My German is hopeless when it comes to grammar but I can fool a native with my German accent. At the time of learning the languages I couldn't care less about them. Especially the elitist Greek and Latin, because I was never going to use them anyway. Looking back on it, the languages did teach me how diverse language can be. It ingrained the belief that language can be both very limiting and very liberating. That to understand someone's view properly, you should try to speak their language (or at least understand the difference). But I do sincerely hope I will never have to translate Tarquinius ever again.
I actually failed Latin (5/10, pass at 5,5/10) but we were allowed to have two 5's or one 4 at graduation. My study plan back then was almost entirely focused on not getting three 5's. In retrospect, the teacher was cool and some texts were amazing, like translating accounts of the Pompeii eruption. Catullus' poems were also funny. But I just knew that every bit of effort beyond the bare minimum would never pay off. I've already forgotten most of the grammar rules and vocabulary, so I don't regret failing it.
Tarquinius? What'd he write, I don't remember him? (Ovid is the worst roman author though)
For my Latin high school Central Exams (which is like a bossfight version of a final that you need to pass at the end of highschool about everything you've learned) our year's topic was Livy's Ab Urbe Condita. Some texts are about Tarquinius the Arrogant, and on those Central Exams we had to translate a text from Livy about Tarquinius concerning Lucretia's suicide. Fitting text, as I also wanted to stab myself in the heart in that moment.
Native English speaker. Speak Hungarian fluently. (Or, used to. Not much call for it in Seattle, sadly.) Basic German from high school. Rudimentary Serbo-Croat. Enough to read signs and know what's in the food I am ordering, but not enough to get a band-aid.
This bit's been on my mind for a couple days. What drew you to learn it to this extent - if by choice? Did you have to learn on-the-job?Speak Hungarian fluently. (Or, used to. Not much call for it in Seattle, sadly.)
Rudimentary Serbo-Croat. Enough to read signs and know what's in the food I am ordering, but not enough to get a band-aid.
Well, when I moved to Hungary there were not a lot of non-Hungarians there. And it wasn't a tourist destination for anyone but the Germans and Austrians. So I needed to learn Hungarian just to order a beer at a bar. The place was also totally corrupt. So I had to know who to bribe and when and how much. And then there was just the geeky fascination of learning such a weird language. I wanted to know more. So between the various native girlfriends I had, and a week-long intensive Hungarian course over the winter holidays at a university, and just living every day in the culture, I became fluent in Hungarian. Trying to learn Serbo-Croat was just a part of working so much in the Balkans. I used to travel for a week or two out of every month throughout the region, driving a truck around to the different military bases. So I would often stop at little roadside diners where nobody spoke English, and have to order food, drinks, get directions, etc. I had to bribe officials, get fuel for the vehicle, deal with border guards, and stuff like that as a part of daily life there, So I picked up what I could from my friends that spoke Serbo-Croat.
That's one hell of an isolating experience, or learning as it seems from your perspective. Bold, nonetheless. From what I gather, you've had quite a bit of a colorful life. Both Hungary and the Balkans being corrupt... interesting. All of this taken into account, would there be any thought or recurring theme you derived about either yourself or people in general after living in the U.S., Hungary, and the Balkans?
Lots of reasons... Hungary was joining the EU, and residency requirements were going to be much stricter. I was self-employed, so didn't have an employer (and their lawyers!) to advocate for me. I'd been there for many years, and was missing my family back in the US. And my Hungarian fiancee had just left me, so I was feeling dejected and lonely, and kind of done with Hungarian women. And finally, Viktor Orban was changing from being the heroic young leader of the rebellion against the old Communist apparatchiks, into a serious nutcase right wing fascist. All those different factors came together to tell me it was time to sell and get out. Go do something else. So I left.
I did. It took a lot of flailing around, heavy drinking, alienating several girlfriends in a row, buying a motorcycle and just riding around the country for a month or so, and finally finding a job I could really commit myself to. I also learned not to talk about anything other than America. The fastest way to stop a conversation with an American is to express the fact that there may be somewhere outside of our borders. Their eyes will glaze over... they will cock their head to one side... and then kinda wander off in a daze. I actually use this when I am annoyed by someone and want them to go away. I just start talking about living overseas, and what life was like there, and they promptly leave. "Right? I know! When I was living in Budapest I had a washing machine, but no dryer. So I had this wire clothes rack I'd hang my clothes out to dry on, and put it up in the living room, and... oh. Ok. Yeah. Good talking to you! See you later!"
Jeez. May it be the circle of people you find yourself into? Quite disenchanting would be to learn that most people in the US are like that. Quite a ride, that was. I hope you're doing fine now and nothing like that touches you again.I also learned not to talk about anything other than America. The fastest way to stop a conversation with an American is to express the fact that there may be somewhere outside of our borders. Their eyes will glaze over... they will cock their head to one side... and then kinda wander off in a daze.
It took a lot of flailing around, heavy drinking, alienating several girlfriends in a row, buying a motorcycle and just riding around the country for a month or so, and finally finding a job I could really commit myself to.
Swedish, English both fluent and a bit of Dutch. Grew up in South Africa with a Swedish mother where my Swedish was improved. Moved to Sweden with Holland as a pit stop for a couple of years. It's really interesting how different cultures affect your identity. Though being South African will always be my true identity, with a bit of Scandinavian and possibly Dutch in the mixture. But mostly South African. Learning German might be easier which will help if I choose to move there (Job intrest) and I will at some point re-learn Dutch to a fluent degree.
Only English well. I know enough German, Latin, and Japanese to know that I don't know any of them, really.
Norwegian, English and my German is pretty okay (I have it in school and have I some friends from Germany) :) We start learning English pretty early here - at least I think? (first year of school aka when we're six). And I read it at least as much as my native language. So reading doesn't feel so different anymore, but reading German is completely something else for me - in a very positive way. Learning it is quite hard for a Norwegian (that, grammatically, is a very easy language). Oh, and I guess it's worth mentioning that we have two written languages: bokmål and nynorsk. Bokmål is the most common one and is basically derived from Danish. It's because of our old union with Denmark. Nynorsk is the result of one man's travels around Norway, collecting all the dialects into one language.
That's pretty incredible of your schools to do that. Do you learn to speak it in the classroom as well? Oooh, that's neat. This is learned separately than English in school, then? For lack of a better word, would this be similar to a slang of sorts, then?We start learning English pretty early here - at least I think? (first year of school aka when we're six). And I read it at least as much as my native language.
(I have it in school and have I some friends from Germany) :) ... So reading doesn't feel so different anymore, but reading German is completely something else for me - in a very positive way.
Nynorsk is the result of one man's travels around Norway, collecting all the dialects into one language.
Yes, we do learn to speak it in the classroom as well, and in the ungdomsskole (year 8-10) we have both an oral and a written grade in English. :) In 8. grade you have to start learning another foreign language. For those of us who doesn't live in one of the three major cities that means German, French or Spanish. In the bigger cities they have Russian and Chinese as well. So our educational system is divided into three stages: - Grade 1-7 - the barneskole. In this period you get no grades at all on your tests and the focus is mostly on learning. - Grade 8-10 - the ungdomsskole. Now you start getting grades. Together with the barneskole, this makes up the obligatory part of our school system. - Grade 11-13 - videregående. Now you have to apply for videregående. We have divided this into so called "lines". Now, you have a ton of lines for vocational studies, and three "uni-preparing" lines: a theoretical one (which is divides into science or Social studies/languages/economics in 12. grade), sports or Music/Drama/Dance. If you go to one of these last lines, then you will alltogether have your second foreign languages for 5 years. You only have English through 11. grade. As for the nynorsk, it is a written language at the same level bokmål, and all Norwegians have it through their school years. We even have two separate grades for bokmål and nynorsk. And if you receive a letter or an e-mail, you are bound by law to answer in the "language" it is written. The difference really isn't the greatest, but it is by far more noticeable than American/British. It was created in the 1800s, as a process to rid ourselves of ties to Danish culture, by a language genius who travelled around the country to gather the way people really spoke. Because the way people actually spoke resembled quite some (more than Danish at least) to the Old-Norse language. We just wanted a language on our own. Now bokmål is not exactly Danish either, it's just pretty close - and there are only written similarities. Even Norwegians have huge differences understanding spoken Danish and the other way around. Bokmål and nynorsk are only written languages, although they in some parts of Oslo speak in a way quite near to bokmål. The same goes for nynorsk, as it closely resembles the western dialects. Lastly I guess it's worth mentioning that people are quite proud of their dialects here, so we have no divide between speaking "cleaner" when we for example are on TV or talking to the king, as in a lot of other countries.
The difference between Nynorsk and Bokmål Norwegian is a middle step between that of American/British English and Dutch/Afrikaans. They're still recognizably the same language, but the difference is noticable and dividing.For lack of a better word, would this be similar to a slang of sorts, then?
I can read and speak Armenian pretty fluently but my writing is shabby. I also somehow learned to read Russian but can't tell what I'm reading for the most part. I'm thinking about what language to study in college- taking suggestions! French was no fun in high school and I mostly forgot everything. I'm interested in German and Arabic.
Don't take suggestions from us. Some of us may know you well, but we're not you, and we're not to live with the language you choose. My guess is that you want a baseline from which to pick, so that picking comes easier. Someone tells you "Pick German", and you think "Nah, I don't like German that much in reality", so you go with Arabic. Someone else tells you "Pick Arabic", and you think "Yeah, that's a pretty good option". Toss a coin: you'll know momentarily which side you want it to fall on, and there lies your answer.I'm thinking about what language to study in college- taking suggestions!
I have the same odd reasoning for Spanish. With regards to what to study in college, I agree with OftenBen for the same reasoning, or perhaps Mandarin. Along with that, Arabic would fall into a similar linguistics branch with Armenian and Russian (however ancient it is).I also somehow learned to read Russian but can't tell what I'm reading for the most part.
I'm a linguistics student and I'm here to tell you that it's way off the mark. They are in the same linguistic family - the Indo-European languages - but to make them stand beside each other is like saying that Icelandic is similar to Hindi. For a native English speaker either for the three languages you mentioned would appear alien, but that doesn't make them similar.Along with that, Arabic would fall into a similar linguistics branch with Armenian and Russian (however ancient it is).
I feel like I now should elaborate on what difference there is so as to not leave anyone confused. First of all, I was wrong to advertise Arabic as an Indo-European language. I presumed it to be, but that presumption turned out to be wrong: Arabic belong to a whole different linguistic family, which makes it either non-related (if you follow the more conservative views on language) or very distantly related (if you follow the more liberal/progressive ones) to the other two. As much as it may bother pro-aggressive Jews and Arabs, the Arabic language is of the same origin as Hebrew, which makes the two people more related than they'd like to admit. Armenian, while an Indo-European language, is most often considered its own branch within the family given how peculiar its development was. That it boasts a unique script helps the case, since the alphabet in question was developed circa 400 AD (for comparison, the Cyrillic script was developed circa 950s AD). Armenian people have a long and deep history which is interesting in itself. Russian is an Eastern Slavic language, coupled with Ukrainian and Belarussian. Like with all of the three languages, we don't know how old it is, but as I mentioned, the script we now use is a thousand-some years old and was developed by Greek monks from the Byzanthine Empire (with whom, as Russian History lessons tell me, Rus' had rather tight connection, including cultural exchange, shared religion - which is why the script comes to life - and trade). All of which is to say: the languages are very different, both linguistically and culturally.
Native? Polish. In a way I think German also qualifies since my mother is and was often talking in it, even when I was basically picking up the speech as an infant, but it's a language that I can rarely (if ever) exercise. I have learned some Czech from my neighbour who was also my piano teacher and I happen to know a bit of Swedish that was enough to confuse a true Swede if you don't mind that exaggeration ;). Polish as a native language makes it very hard to get used to puns. We have very little to show when it comes to homophones and homonyms. Plus we don't really have prepositions like 'a', 'an' or 'the'. In Polish you use suffixes and context to signify whatever preposition does. It makes most foreigners scratch their heads since word like "Michała" can mean (depending on context) "Property of Mike", "Made by Mike", "Mike's" or "Feminine form of Michael that functions here as a name of a person". Plus it seems that every qualifier I'm making is strong as it can get in English while in Polish it would be more context-sensitive. UTF-8 :P. Otherwise the above example will look like complete crap. This is weird, but bare with me: I'm rarely using words when I think of something. It's more of a matter of connections between shapes, sounds or memories. When I think "Cat" I see a picture of one, a picture of encyclopedia entry on one as a literal picture etc. I'm rarely using sounds for anything in my head. I have problems with differentiating people by voice etc. I don't know why, but it's a lot of like library in my head. Most of the time when I talk, as you could see in the recording you referenced, I have long and mostly silent pauses. That's my brain trying to interpret Devac's Headspace(TM) to speech. Plus I was nervous as hell which does not help much. Bit artsy/autistic description, but that's how it seems to work for me. If I 'hear' myself in the head it's usually the language I'm focusing on. If I'm learning/speaking English, it's English etc.what coding
Do you sometimes think in this language, rather than your native tongue?
I get the impression that English's lack of signifying prefixes/suffixes regarding gender or people, for example, is part of my difficulty learning other languages with seemingly more complex grammar. Kudos. I can attest to a similar experience. More so a collection of loosely related ideas or flashbacks in sequence rather than words per se. Ah, yes. This always is fascinating to me. To learn a language to a point that your brain (or you) can encode and interpret information in a form other than your native or preferred medium.It's more of a matter of connections between shapes, sounds or memories.
If I 'hear' myself in the head it's usually the language I'm focusing on. If I'm learning/speaking English, it's English etc.
Well, to be fair Polish (and many other languages) has/have both byzantine grammar and forms that are alien to English speakers. This article is weird to read as Pole, but I can kinda dig it at least in terms of "why could that be so complex" explanation. Edit/arseshelter: just to make sure we are on the same page, I don't think of Polish as the hardest language or agree with quite a few things in article itself regarding difficulty assessment. It's largely OK as presentation of one point on it being hard, but I do recognize how people learn in different ways and speeds. To me, Spanish is too hard and makes so many weird rules about pronunciation that even German and French seem almost sensible (and I remind you, one has umlauts and another seems to need each vowel in at least two or three flavors). Portuguese? No, thank you. I want at least one consonant that sounds like I know it ;). The point is: article shows some difficulties and should not be considered as authoritative. Or that I wanted to present it as such. I don't think that's that. Let me try this one: Back/return, Here/there, is/are, It, Me, Go, Good/bad, Where, Stop, For, If/else, While, I, You, There, Just, Get, Up/Down, Left/Right, Not/No and counting to about ten is enough to be very expressive. You should know enough programming to know how much you can do with just that :P. That's why knowing just a few gestures + hand alphabet allows deaf people to communicate so quickly. You probably need a solid understanding of as little as about 50-80 words to convey the core meaning nine times out of ten. "This not nice, it look bad", but you don't need some fabled Fifth Conditional (the preposterous case, describes a negative probability of occurrence) or 20$ adjectives to get to the core of information. It's not hard to reason on a "Simple English" level of Wikipedia. I think on a Simple Swedish and Simple Czech level, only add some more stuff from time to time. With time, it could actually become something around fluency, but unlikely to ever get better than my English. Which on the other hand sucks compared to my Polish.I get the impression that English's lack of signifying prefixes/suffixes regarding gender or people, for example, is part of my difficulty learning other languages with seemingly more complex grammar. Kudos.
Ah, yes. This always is fascinating to me. To learn a language to a point that your brain (or you) can encode and interpret information in a form other than your native or preferred medium.
English is native, French was fluent but kind of shakey now that I don't really use it (who would have thought that very few people speak French in the PNW...) and business is an unfortunate necessity.
I'm a native English speaker from the US, and did terribly at foreign language classes in school. Later in life, I spent 5 or so years learning Mandarin (speaking, reading and writing, traditional and simplified). I still speak it everyday and lived in Taiwan for years. Learned a bit of Taiwanese Hokkien, mostly for the food. Recently moved to the Philippines for work and have to speak a little Tagalog, though most people in the business world here speak great English. A new language in always in context, and you gain some new personality traits with it. My Chinese expression is more precise and logical than my English, partly because I lack the rhetorical skills to bullshit so I can't really afford to. My (very basic) Tagalog is entirely focused on making friends and diffusing tense situations, because rolling with the punches and making friends fast is an important life skill in the Philippines. For non-human languages, I do data analysis by trade and have a very different approach to programming than traditional software engineers. I tend to use and write in the functional rather than the imperative style. Examples include Scala, R, and some uses of Python. When working with new developers, I usually spend some time introducing the paradigm and why it can help data driven products.
I really like how you've described this element of how you experience the different languages you've picked up. Would it be appropriate to say that your mindset when jumping into the other languages shifts as well? Into said "personalities" that don't necessarily equate when you jump into another linguistic mindset?A new language in always in context, and you gain some new personality traits with it. My Chinese expression is more precise and logical than my English, partly because I lack the rhetorical skills to bullshit so I can't really afford to. My (very basic) Tagalog is entirely focused on making friends and diffusing tense situations, because rolling with the punches and making friends fast is an important life skill in the Philippines.
English is my first language, but I went to a Spanish bilingual immersion school from K-8, and then kept studying it in high school, so I'd say I'm pretty fluent in that. The switch from immersion to high school classes set me back and fucked me over a bit, because suddenly I had to question my grammar. When I've traveled abroad or used Spanish elsewhere though, I've found people really don't care if you use the wrong tense occasionally, especially if you're surrounded by asshole Americans who can't even be bothered to try. So in those situations, I've gotten better at switched back to my middle school Spanish. Of course, because I learned it immersion style, with a bunch of immigrants and second-generation Americans, I speak a very Mexican Spanish with a lot of street slang and more modern grammar than many of my high school teachers liked. Being in an immersion environtment so long, with friends who all also spoke Spanish meant that I got used to being able to switch between the languages at will. I still have to watch myself with my high school friends because not all of them know enough Spanish for me to throw a word or two into the middle of a sentence. I think in a mix though. Spanish can make some things a lot shorter, and other things a lot longer (for example, no possessive 's, which is a real pain). I also have picked up a few Mandarin words, some Italian and then just a few random other things from friends and other places that get mixed into my thoughts and speech. There's also a lot of teen slang I use, and some of it is pretty specific to my town, and even my high school. It's always kind of weird when I use a phrase with someone who lives elsewhere and they have no idea what I mean. Cool though too.
It never failed to stump some of the ignorant teachers at my high school why kids fluent in Spanish were failing in Spanish class. This is exactly the students' POV they'd point to. Interesting to see this happen across the US. I think in a mix though. Spanish can make some things a lot shorter, and other things a lot longer (for example, no possessive 's, which is a real pain). I absolutely love this bit, thanks for sharing!The switch from immersion to high school classes set me back and fucked me over a bit, because suddenly I had to question my grammar. When I've traveled abroad or used Spanish elsewhere though, I've found people really don't care if you use the wrong tense occasionally, especially if you're surrounded by asshole Americans who can't even be bothered to try.
Being in an immersion environtment so long, with friends who all also spoke Spanish meant that I got used to being able to switch between the languages at will. [...]
I'm a native English speaker but I'm all right in Spanish. I can have a decent conversation in Spanish but I'm not fluent. My family is Hispanic, so I regularly use Spanish in some way.
Interesting! While you aren't fluent, can comprehend it fluently? I'm a native English speaker as well, and I've observed some of my Hispanic friends can't speak Spanish but comprehend it fully to the point that their family will switch between English and Spanish mid-sentence when talking to each other. Do you experience this as well?
I understand Spanish pretty well and I do sometimes switch from Spanish to English to Spanish but most of the time, I stay in Spanish.
Native English speaker with a few remnants of Spanish and Italian kicking up in my head somewhere from my high school days. More recently I've been trying to pick up Japanese, which is proving to be about as difficult as I expected it to be. Having a lot more luck with Japanese -> English than the reverse, which I guess is just a consequence of not having that many people to speak to and needing to make some serious tracks on my grammar. But since I'm nowhere near fluent with any of the three secondaries I listed, it's hard to say how it's changed me. With the Japanese at least it feels like I'm working toward a long-term goal, and I find myself actively remembering more and more pieces of it as I go, which is a nice feeling for someone with commitment issues.
I'm still only halfway through my university's sequence of German classes, but I think I could hold up a conversation. Not at a high level, but enough to get by. Haha no, there's just a very specific set of vocabulary common to people who talk about gear.Dare I ask, in the form of a beat box???
Do you guys do student exchanges? My school used to do it, but the US students' German was all but non-existent.
Sort of? We have a relationship with the University of Freiburg where we exchange one professor and one upper-level student to intern with each school's language department, and every other year we have a group that goes and studies at Freiburg for a semester.