Thanks, lil. I'm getting married next month. For years, I've maintained that marriage is vestigial, unnecessary, and an affront to women's rights. I'm not totally sold that those things are untrue, but I still feel I'm making a good choice. My wife-to-be is a successful designer, and on her way to becoming a top manager at a giant company. I don't feel that I'm encumbering her form doing that, so my reservations about being a head-of-household-traditional-patriarch type of guy are allayed. I think we have a thing where we can support each other without being taxing or burdensome. This isn't a situation I imagined myself in even one year ago. It's kind of incredible the sharp turns you can take in life. Like the author, I also come from a household of divorce, and I think that gives one a skeptical eye toward marriage. But I also think that my skeptical eye has made me incredibly selective. I'm definitely not an absolutist, even if my sometimes hyperbolic way of speaking makes me appear that way. All the while that I maintained that marriage wasn't for me, I knew there was an exception to that rule, should I ever find anyone whom I loved who also met some criteria that I defined fro myself (this may sound too calculating, and maybe it is, but everyone has their own way of doing things, right?--not sure there's a right or wrong way in this instance). I can't say I'm without reservation, but my reservations seem small, and they weigh pretty low on the pro/con scale. Mostly at this point I'm just fucking sick of talking about weddings. I'll admit that I was wrong about getting married, but I was spot-fuckin'-on about what a horrible waste of time and money a wedding is (not to mention how easily damaged everyone's feelings are, and how many opinions women can have about the most trivial bullshit--but anyway, it's in Maui, so I can't really complain too much :)
It can be pretty useful legally for a couple with combined financials to be married when an unfortunate situation arises dealing with HIPAA regulations. Knowing the above was one of the biggest hurdles for me understanding why marriage is important to the LGBT communities. All I could think in my head was, "Why would anyone want to get validated with a marriage by a system that was repressive?" Now in light of legal realities of long-term companionship ... I get it.
Mostly at this point I'm just fucking sick of talking about weddings. I'll admit that I was wrong about getting married, but I was spot-fuckin'-on about what a horrible waste of time and money a wedding is (not to mention how easily damaged everyone's feelings are, and how many opinions women can have about the most trivial bullshit--but anyway, it's in Maui, so I can't really complain too much :)
Totally agree. The very first thing my mother-in-law said to us when we told her we were going to get married was, "Don't sit me next to your step mother." Luckily we were able to do our wedding for a reasonable amount, but not before getting advice such as, "You should just take out a $20,000 loan for it. You're going to be in debt anyway, might as well start now"
My parents just celebrated their 30th wedding anniversary, which I think is great and beautiful. However, I think their marriage is far from the "ideal." My brother focuses on the generally-supposed 'fact' that they haven't had sex in years. It makes me sad when my dad sleeps on the couch (nearly every night) and my mom alone in their bed. They don't sleep like that because they're fighting - nonsense with an old salty cat who will pee on the floor if not let out almost every day in the wee hours of the morning - but I feel like if I were to get married, and stay married, I'd want to want to touch my partner. I'd want to want to sleep with them. Not even sex - but that side-by-side sleep-partner contact, minimum. Sex is important, too, of course, but I wanted to establish a sort of minimum. I think my mother feels alone a lot. She's a bit of a needy person so that has to be taken with a grain of salt, and that's also what happens when you make your life mostly about your kids and then they move out (as kids are wont to do) but it's still kind of sad. I think/hope that my being there helps her. They spend a lot of time in each other's company, and I do think that's part of what marriage is about: companionship, as well as trust. It just presents this interesting model of "Yes, my parents have stayed married, and that's admirable, but I don't know if what they have is really what I would want." - OR, if I am idealistic about long-term relationships. OR, if my parents' physical/personal desires aren't the same as mine (at least in my mother's case, very likely). OR, they are together, but how happy are they? Does my dad wish he still got laid? (Maybe they had anniversary sex while they were away this weekend! If they did, that would make me happy for them. I don't know how likely it is, but also, I'll never know.) I think if I were ever to get to that point the idea of actually entering the legal contract and fully committing would scare the shit out of me. Because there's a difference between "I love you and I'll be here forever and that's just kind of a given" and "I love you and I've sworn to be here forever and this is a legal/social commitment/acknowledgement of our relationship." But hopefully if I ever were to get to that point, I would trust my partner enough that I would be able to do it :)
Specifically, because I have only heard ONE good argument FOR marriage, and that is And coercion isn't too convincing to me. Everything else is about kids (Which I don't want anything to do with) or tax purposes. (That would need some investigation and time with a tax lawyer before I believe that it's worth it) Every other benefit from long-term, sexually monogamous cohabitation doesn't require the piece of paper. I'm not even opposed to a ceremony of some kind if that's what my S.O. wants. Disclaimer: My parents marriage has seen better days, though they are working on it. It's been a very eventful few years for our family, immediate and extended.It will get other people to stop hassling me about marriage
Yeah that's not a good argument for it. I would want to get married if I met someone who I sincerely believed I would be with for the rest of my life? I'm willing to believe that person exists somewhere out there probably. I'm not like, crazy on the hunt for him or her though. I've never had a relationship that lasted more than two years and I usually feel that, based on my own relationship habits and personality, I probably ain't gonna. (This is all coming up in the attachment styles thread.) If I do, great, and then I'd get married. Because I wanted to. I don't really care about the institution or the taxes or whatever. If I found someone I really wanted to be with ad infinitum, I would want to get married (I think - emphasis on "really wanted" and "ad infinitum" aka I'd have to be REALLY sure). I think marriage can be a beautiful thing and so can the trust that is formed by such a relationship. When you marry someone they become your family, even if you don't have kids. There's no one on this earth that I care about more, or would do more for, than my siblings, followed by my mom and dad. They are my top emotional priority. With marriage, a second-tier[1] (below family) relationship would become first-tier for me. It would represent a huge shift and huge commitment. It really would mean, not leaving, committing to working through problems, being there for each other even when you sometimes hate each other, taking all the good with the bad, etc. So anyway that's how, when and why I would get married I guess. I view marriage as more commitment than a long-term relationship. I don't mean to disparage against those who don't plan to get married and view a long-term relationship as equally committed - but for me, there is a difference. It might be small and subtle (cuz if I'm in an LTR with you hopefully you're at the top of the "friends" tier anyway) but it would be there.
[1] A long time ago when I realized that I allowed myself to drown in relationships and lose myself, I got single and developed a tier system of, I guess, "importance" or "priority." It's as follows:
I actually find this really helpful to keep in mind when determining plans/last minute stuff comes up. Last minute family stuff? Generally trumps plans with friends. Last minute booty text when you're out with your friends? Fuck no, you're with your friends, they trump. 1. You, because no one else is going to make you their #1, and if they do, they are probably not properly taking care of themselves. You gotta make sure you're washed, clothed, fed, exercised, watered, whatever. You gotta put your fulfillment first.
2. Family. Not everyone shares this. I have a crappy family. But it's important to me to be there for them for every occasion, and whenever they need help (within reason) I'll come and I'll help.
3. Friends. I have two friends who, if they're in trouble, I'll do whatever I can that's reasonable in my power to help them. I show them I care by being there for them when they need it. Everyone else falls behind.
4. All the rest you fuckers.
Yeah, I would say so. It takes someone who is hopefully one of your best friends, and moves them to a permanent (or in my ideal mind permanent) status where their relationship to you is no longer mutable ("if she pisses me off enough I can just fucking leave" or "I can't deal with this any more and I need a break from being this person's friend") to now - first having an understanding that the people you love and are around all the time are going to piss you off, and while it's unfortunate it's actually kind of okay and natural from time to time - and then, trying to move past those altercations with love and acceptance, or at least patience (and apologies as warranted). There's an element to it of really truly knowing a person too, or when you're in a family of knowing the general behaviors of each member of the group - and I guess of just general acceptance of these people's behaviors (as long as they're not self-destructive, etc). I think it's the acceptance angle that's a big part of it. I think the other part of it is kind of a rubber-band like willingness/commitment to pitch in. For instance I moved back with my parents at the start of the month. On average, I come home and do three chores a day. I don't do them because they ask me to. I don't keep track of how many chores I do or dishes I've loaded. In a roommate situation even if I was living with my best friends I wouldn't be happy if I were doing the majority of the chores for the household, because it's not fair and those aren't my dishes and yadda yadda yadda. I feel like with family, you try not to tally up "good marks" and "bad marks" and keep things even. You just pitch in when you can as much as you can, and trust that the rubber band will come back for you when you need it. I'll be traveling to VA soon and I know without asking my parents will take care of my cat. That's some of my payback. I would expect/want that from a spouse, but would never expect it from a roommate. Sure, I'd ask, but if my best friend/roommate has plans for that weekend I'd find other arrangements. With a spouse or with family I feel like there's just this extra layer, an element that you trust that they will make something work to help you when you need it. If I were in jail and married, I'd call my spouse, then my family, then my friends for bail. (Hopefully it's not that expensive and they don't mind helping me out!) If I were in jail and had a significant other, even if it were long term, I'd call my parents/family, then the s/o, then my friends. (I'd also ask my family to contact my s/o if I really did only get one call, or vice versa with the marriage situation.) I think it is a subtle shift and I think this is probably a pretty personal distinction but that is kind of where I would draw it. EDIT: I admit I started making a false dichotomy between best friends/family here, when clearly "significant other" is a middle ground, but I think that's partially because of the tier structure, and they're the closest things to compare to.
