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comment by bioemerl
bioemerl  ·  3707 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: List of ethical concerns in video games (partial)

I...

The first link:

    Video games are used to covertly advance the political agendas of arms manufacturers.

I honestly shouldn't bother with the rest of it, as I already know it's going to be hyper-liberal conspiracy theorist bullshit.

    The aggressive marketing of capitalist war games is an inspiration to the U.S. military, which could take a page out of games marketing’s book in order to push unpopular ideas on the public.

Really? Business are good at advertising games, and that make the military better at propaganda?

Well, Two down...

    Games like Littleloud’s Sweatshop or Molleindustria’s Phone Story are forbidden from Apple’s mobile storefronts, because they question (arguably deservedly) the ethics of manufacturing operations in impoverished areas.

The fuck does this have to do with games? That is an issue with curated storefronts by biased curators.

    This site and this one are just a couple of the sites game developers can pay for reviews that make unproven promises to improve games’ positioning on mobile storefronts.

Ethical concern for games: Businesses pay for reviews...

This. Still has nothing to do with video games themselves. Just storefronts and general issues with unregulated capitalism.

    Developers who invest in design and publishing on mobile storefronts can expect to have free, unsanctioned clones of their games steal their revenue and come ahead of the original on charts with no action taken from the companies that own those storefronts.

That's it, I'm skipping the rest of the ones that are along these lines.

    The labor practices of the traditional game industry are exploitive and abhorrent. The industry’s historical production model involves staffing up, demanding extreme work weeks, and then letting go of the ‘excess’ talent after a product ships. Speaking out against these conditions is socially sanctioned, and developers who speak to the press at any time other than when marketing wants them to risk being fired.

Yeah, and for good reason. People work those jobs with talent that could get them a hell of a lot of money in other places. Turns out people choose to work as game designers (programming wise) because they like the field, not because they want money or short hours. If you don't like it, find a new job. And of course you get fired if you attack the company that is hiring you.

    An entire product and studio network — and by extension, a regional economy around games — can tank because of political posturing,

This isn't an ethical concern!

    In the name of objectivity, the consumer-facing games press largely releases material on a mutually-agreed upon set of terms and schedules dictated by game companies.

Total Biscuit has done very good talks on why this is. It has more to do with there being a fair "start date" for all companies so one does not get an early review and undermine everyone else. Without a schedule you can just give out review copies to those you know are going to review positively.

    In many of the above cases even when disclosure is obligated and made, disclosure does little to purify the overall effect on the climate and its perspectives.

Yeah, but with disclosure everyone knows where the biases are and can look to multiple places for review.

    Women in games are routinely abused, bullied and harassed while their professional community, and the industry’s largest companies, tend to remain silent. Interrogating this culture or attempting to advance this conversation can result in censure or punishment.

With a link to the intel article? So sorry, random gaming news site, but when you go out of your way to insult a large consumer base, the people who sell things to that consumer base is going to stop selling ads on your site. You don't publish an article calling gamers "man children who are socially inept" when your audience is exactly that. Not without losing your audience and advertisers and having to start again with a new one, at least.

    Not currently ethical concerns: Women’s sex lives, independent game developers’ Patreons, the personal perspectives of game critics, people having contentious or controversial opinions, who knows who in a close-knit industry (as if one could name an industry where people don’t know each other or work together).

So we go from absolute bullshit to anti Gamer Gate shit in what, two paragraphs?

___

I love how we had gotten away from the "gamers r stupid fat nerds with acne", but then right the fuck back to it with the neckbeard stereotype.

Every time I hear "women are abused when participating in games" it's liked to the "critics" like Anita or Zoe Quinn. I know they do get harassment from people, threats, etc, but that's what happens to anyone on the internet with an opinion any group does not like. Look at TB, who had quite a few issues with criticism, or the amazing atheist. When a person does things people don't like, they are attacked by people online. It's not an issue connected to gaming, gamers, or anything of the sort. It's a problem with the internet, and honestly it's not going away until we force people to use their real names online.

How about instead of pointing to these two scapegoats we actually focus on the real issues. Not "oh, games make people view women as objects" or "people hate my badly made flash game because i'm a woman!". Focus on the fact that people will stereotype women as not being gamers. Focus on how, when you play or are a girl on xbox live, you (apparently) get all the people going directly and immediately to "gamer girl" stereotypes, or using crap like "go make me a sandwich'.

There is no issue I know of that is a larger deal than that. All the bullshit about women being sexualized will go away if we actually get a large enough part of women playing "hardcore" games to offset the number of men playing them. (it won't go away, necessarily, but there will be far more money in making a neutral game rather than a sexy one). Push for more female developers, for better moderation of communities to oust fucks like described above, etc.

Build something, be constructive. All I see from these "critics" is complaining about really minor issues in games, and going so far as to directly mislead and cherry-pick information while doing so. People don't hate them because they criticism games. People have been doing that for ages. They hate them because of the false information, the misrepresentation, etc.





Shatto  ·  3447 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    that's what happens to anyone on the internet with an opinion any group does not like.

This is true but only women are attacked for their gender.

In fact anyone not a straight white male is attacked for who they are.

So all these issues are not actual ethical issues but the stuff GG is fighting, is? Just trying to be clear

bioemerl  ·  3435 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If you are going to show that you are being attacked, you must do so to show it is because you are a woman, not because you pissed off a thousand people and gained a large audience.

Shatto  ·  3435 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Women are more often attacked using rape threats, sexual harassment, gendered slurs, etc. Men not so much. A man online won't be so quick to say he's going to rape another man for fear of being laughed at by peers calling him gay. Saying you're going to rape a female, is met with hoots and howls, at worst silence but rarely dissent.

bioemerl  ·  3378 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Women are more often attacked using rape threats, sexual harassment, gendered slurs, etc.

The goalposts have moved.

Do you agree that women need to be showing they are under attack from people who are doing so because they are a woman, and that people currently claiming they are under harassment because of their gender have not shown that this is so?

    Saying you're going to rape a female, is met with hoots and howls, at worst silence but rarely dissent.

From what I have observed, this flat out is not true. Perhaps it happens in low quality, idiot-territories, that I don't visit, but I have never seen this happen. Rape-jokes maybe, but directly saying "i'm going to rape you" in the sexual manner (it's used sometimes as a "absolutely destroy/pillage/rape") is something I have never seen.

Shatto  ·  3378 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Do you agree that women need to be showing they are under attack from people who are doing so because they are a woman, and that people currently claiming they are under harassment because of their gender have not shown that this is so?

Yes to a point, I don't think anytime a woman says they are being harassed that we demand instant proof, sometimes that's not possible but we can't dismiss her claim, you don't have to believe she was harassed but at least believe that she thinks she was harassed. What is harassment to you might be different to her (though it's very clear what harassment is)

Anita for example has proved numerous times she has been harassed and people still think she's just doing it to herself. Harassment is any kind of wanted attention, especially if it persists after they asked you to stop. Felicia Day got doxxed right after talking about GG and being scared of that happening.

My point is that being called an idiot, dick or asshat online is nowhere near as offensive or threatening as rape/death threats and gendered slurs like cunt, bitch, whore that women seem to get , not to mention the classic "get back in the kitchen" everyone is expected to laugh at but one male tears mug lights all their asses on fire and all of a sudden women are misandrists .

    From what I have observed, this flat out is not true. Perhaps it happens in low quality, idiot-territories, that I don't visit, but I have never seen this happen

Not to be rude but have you seen rapes happen? Things can happen that you won't see. I have plenty of friends who are skeptical about the validity of female gamer friends who have said they were harassed. A lot of the time it's not even via voice chat in game, it can be after the game with messages or stalking.

Though here are what it sounds like when it happens via voice so you know what it's like

http://www.notinthekitchenanymore.com/

carboxyl  ·  3707 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Wow I completely agree, it's like people see screenshots from games taken out of context and assume this is how the gamer views the world. Articles like this are just going to turn women off video games until we're stuck with the same problem you see in STEM fields.

And none of these are real ethical concerns they're just thinks that the author thinks aren't fair

    One of the U.S.’ most long-running and successful print game publications [game informer] is owned by one of the world’s best-known game retailers [gamestop], and few of the magazine’s consumers seem aware of what, if any impact that relationship might have.
Wait, you don't think NintendoPower was owned by Nintendo do you?

These gripes about the gaming media are meaningless, stop assuming businesses are funded like political campaigns. Video game media are small-internet oriented-operations, industry advertising is the only way most of these guys can keep their sites running. Could you get some conflicts of interest? Of course, but there are millions of reviewers out there it's your choice on who to support. There is no industry giant that has opinion influencing control over all the major video game media outlets.