I guess if I wanted I could be a dick and claim that I have more right to an opinion on right-to-life/right-to-choose/abortion than 90%+ of this thread. This is New Age bullshit I don't buy into, and that's coming from a person who's had another life inside of her and made a choice about it. I'm tired of plots where the character who's had the abortion just simply can't get over her abortion. Some part of her life is all screwy and she has to repent, somehow, with massive guilt and a screwy life (caused or not caused in part by her guilt) because she's Kilt A Baby. (Our firm's NEWEST DIY kit, "Quilt A Baby," is coming out next month! Keep your eyes peeled for this sew-n-stuff entertainment!) On the other hand, in a plot, if you have a happy, adjusted character who's had an abortion, there's no point to the "had an abortion" part. Chekhov's gun, tightness of the narrative, only mention things that are relevant. IE: Well adjusted character? Morbid backstory that's been resolved, not relevant. Distracts. Takes up word count. So I understand why the general trope exists & occurs. Still sucks, though. Makes people think there's only one or two routes away from an abortion. Makes people feel like if you have an abortion, you also have to be hung up about it for the rest of your life. Don't get me wrong. An abortion is a big deal and not a decision to be taken lightly. But it's not a decision that has to screw you up for life. I think a woman deserves the right to choose. If the fetus/egg/zygote isn't viable I don't believe its potential life should be taken into consideration as a reason to have the child. The quality of its potential life? Yes. What you as a potential part can give (or can't give) this potential child? Yes. Just simply the fact that in a few months it can turn into a child? No. Sometimes what gets lost in this discussion is how much right a potential father should have to a zygote/embryo/fetus/I really don't care. It's the woman's body and I don't think a woman should be forced to experience something so physically stressful and demanding without being willing. That is, I don't think a man should be able to claim that because he impregnated a woman and half of that potential child is his, she has to carry it to term if he wants it. Do some fuckin' science-magic and take the egg and put it in someone else or something for chrissakes. But if a woman was willing to carry a baby but didn't want to raise it, and a man was, well that would be copacetic for me. I agree that when a fetus is closer to term things become squishier morally even as they become less squishy in the womb. I don't know as it's possible to lay down a unilateral decision on this one. I'm against the wanton carrying-then-destruction of a would-be child, as in "I'll just make up my mind later," or "The father and I had a fight at the last minute and as an emotional reaction I am 'deciding' without thought that I don't want this child." I find it hard to believe, but not impossible, that the reasons for having a late-term abortion are not more complex. And perhaps incomprehensible to me. So the jury is out but loosely in favor of abortion in general including late term; of course it is always possible to find horrific examples to break my heart, there are exceptions to all rules and proposed rules. As for capital punishment, I'm in general against it, although I like to point out to anti-abortion pro-capital-punishment opinion-holders that there is a perceived conflict between those two points of view. We have too shitty of a justice system for anyone to sleep well in regards to capital punishment the way it is carried out in this country. In addition, the medical dilemma it presents for doctors is extremely problematic and prevents us from ensuring things such as painfree victim death. For those that wish pain upon those who receive capital punishment I say that you are not looking for punishment, you are looking for revenge, and revenge is not the business of a justice system. I think we should rehabilitate our prisoners when, if at all, ever, possible. For those who cannot or will not be rehabilitated, some sort of prison can be achieved, I'm sure.Trust me, when someone tells you you’re pregnant, you realize you have another life inside of you and know your life will be forever changed no matter what choice you make.
P.S. Leave my mom alone :)I guess if I wanted I could be a dick and claim that I have more right to an opinion on right-to-life/right-to-choose/abortion than 90%+ of this thread.
Yeah, I guess you could but it wouldn't be true. Each one of us, male and female have as much right to an opinion on the topic as you do. You have NO IDEA what we have been through, regardless of gender. Don't presume. Sometimes what gets lost in this discussion is how much right a potential father should have to a zygote/embryo/fetus/I really don't care. It's the woman's body and I don't think a woman should be forced to experience something so physically stressful and demanding without being willing.
-I don't think a woman should be forced either, but I also think its callous and... well, fucking lame to say you don't care about the fathers concerns. Do some fuckin' science-magic and take the egg and put it in someone else or something for chrissakes.
-Yeah, I'll ah.. okay, do that and stuff. This is New Age bullshit I don't buy into
Did you just call my mom bullshit? She could soooo feel my babyness in her womb. Yours must not have been quite so babyish as I was :-)
Which is it though? You have to pick one, if the father is insisting that his baby be born.
You either ignore his concerns, or you force the woman. You can't have it both ways, at least, not always.I don't think a woman she be forced either, but I also think its callous and... well, fucking lame to say you don't care about the fathers concerns.
I said it, I think it's the woman's choice. However, to pretend that something callous and somewhat unjust isn't happening is wrong imo. It's a shitty situation and to pretend otherwise and to say things like "I really don't care" is wrong and so much of the abortion debate (on both sides) pretends that there aren't worlds of nuance at play. It's a contentious topic for a reason.... both sides realize that neither is really in the indisputable "right".
When the other person said "I really don't care", it was in reference to what to call the blob of cells! They've corrected your misunderstanding already, but maybe it didn't register.
I think you took offense where none was given. Here's the quote :
how much right a potential father should have to a zygote/embryo/fetus/I really don't care.
I think that shows a disregard for how much right a father should have. Keep in mind that "rights" don't necessarily mean "custody" or the ability to "coerce" or "force" a women to keep the child, but the right to care, to have a voice in your caring. To be distraught or excited about the choice. These are rights too that are too easily diminished imo. Whether you like it or not, the father is a factor in this equation. Does he have the right (in my opinion) to make the ultimate choice? -No. Does he have the right to be heard, to voice his thoughts? Yes, absolutely. same disclaimer... half a bottle of wine. Shouldn't even be at a keyboard. Cheers though and by the way, every time I eat honey, I think of you pal. -Is that odd? I'll answer that. "yes, yes it is."I think you took offense where none was given. Here's the quote :
how much right a potential father should have to a zygote/embryo/fetus/I really don't care.
The presumption is meant more to serve as commentary for the posters who say they have no right to an opinion. While my own experience is absolutely relevant and it may be true that, as a result, I know my opinion a bit more thoroughly (ins & outs as it were) as a result, I find copping to one's lack of experience as a lack of a reason for an opinion both valid and at the same time - either disappointing or almost a cop-out. For example, I have difficulty forming an articulate opinion on Ferguson when people begin debating that the events were racially motivated. I firmly believe they were, but I don't feel I have the ability, or the context, to "prove" it accurately to others who don't believe that. I don't have quick stats nor do I have experience. I also feel I can't speak to the experience of minorities in cases such as Ferguson as a result. I firmly feel I am stuck in the "white person, can't possibly fathom" camp. HOWEVER ... I also feel like such an answer is a quick, easy & glib way to excuse my lack of opinion, or me being too lazy to put in the work and actually form an opinion. I feel like there is validity to saying "I can't possibly have an opinion because I don't have the experience..." but that it also allows one to not mentally work at having an opinion on a topic. It is a bit of a crux I think. It is better to admit that one's sword may not be in the fight than plunge in acting as if one's unseasoned opinion has total weight. But it is also better, I think, to engage than say "because I have no experience I will not face the conflict." I didn't say I don't care about the father's concerns. I find it difficult to reconcile with them when faced with the burden of the developing (here I said "I really don't care" because there are so many terms and distinctions here and I don't care about the subtleties for the sake of this discussion) egg/zygote/fetus/whatever, within the female body. I think it can potentially be very difficult for guys who want to have kids to be faced with a woman who wants an abortion. I don't think that there is a happy solution for that couple in most cases. As for the science-magic, clearly a theoretical, it'd-be-cool-if-you-could-please-everyone sort of possibility. I am sure your mother is amazing, tng. You have no idea how terrified I am at the thought that mine may be spinning somewhere around the hub. I just do get irritated at people who insist that having had an abortion, or choosing to go through with a pregnancy, Changes One For Life. I agree that having a child certainly is going to do that and also that it's a big decision and shouldn't be taken lightly. I don't believe it's a decision that has to leave emotional scars that cripple one for life or which one still has to be burdened with years after the fact. So her opinion, while hers and I'm sure realized through the context of her life, struck a chord that I think society in general likes to play - while she may have not meant to, or realized she was. I would love to see some "had an abortion and am glad" characters in plots. I guess I would really like to see someone I can relate more to. I watch movies where a character has had an abortion and as a result, her relationship, and then her life falls apart as she moves into addiction (just as one example). I don't relate to that. On top of that, not relating to that somehow makes it seem a) to everyone that this is what an abortion does to you and b) to me that perhaps something's wrong with me for not being devastated. I refuse to believe something is wrong with me for making the best choice available to me. I refuse to believe I should be tormented for choosing not to be tormented.
There are few moments in your life when you are standing at the brink of a decision with this much potential for change. Having an abortion presumably secures the status quo of your life. Nothing really changes, though some would argue that it does. But to say that you are irritated by those that suggest that going through with a pregnancy Changes One For Life shows a huge lack of awareness by just how much being a parent, or even a deliveree of a baby means. It's an enormous thing... and I don't just mean the responsibility. It's HUGE... and it comes out of your vagina. That in and of itself will actually change many women for life. Having a child will change you. It will. It will change you in ways you couldn't even imagine. I'll stop now, because trying to describe the love you feel for your child to someone that hasn't had one is like trying to describe color to a blind person. edit: I feel the need to let you know that I love you and think the world of you and that I've had a bottle of wine.I just do get irritated at people who insist that having had an abortion, or choosing to go through with a pregnancy, Changes One For Life
Whether you choose to recognize it or not, it DOES change you for life. It's a HUGE choice you make.
From Directly after your quote of me: Clearly, my umbrage is not truly directed at those who say having a child will change your life. Children remain an if, not a when, for me.I agree that having a child certainly is going to do that and also that it's a big decision and shouldn't be taken lightly. I don't believe it's a decision that has to leave emotional scars that cripple one for life or which one still has to be burdened with years after the fact.
My apologies, I shouldn't be having this conversation for several reasons. 1. Having my MOM drop by hubski was truly weird. 2. wine 3. I need rest.