I haven't been in that situation in my life yet, but here's how I think I would handle it (hypothetically, or course). It seems to me that there's a fine line to walk between being traditional and being misogynistic. Asking permission may be a bit of the latter, even if it is a formality. In some way, it feels like two boys deciding the fate of a helpless girl, and I don't think I'm OK with that. However, informing her father of your intent and asking for his assent seems reasonable to me. I think that way, you can respect the tradition, while at the same time not acting like there's any power sharing arrangement between men. She is a person who gets to make up her own mind, and her opinion is the one that matters. Respecting traditions can sometimes be seen in very negative ways, given the history of the dispossessed. For example, go down south and ask the nearest back guy what he thinks of the red neck who is respecting the tradition of flying the Rebel colors on his truck. It's an extreme analogy, to be sure, but certainly women have had a long history of possession by men, as well. All that said, I still think there is value in having a man-to-man with a woman's father, perhaps if nothing else than to let him know that you love his daughter, and you will treat her with respect, humanity and dignity and everything else that she deserves. It's a fine line.
You gotta be careful, though. It really depends on the mix of the people involved. No matter how you slice it, Daddy knows Baby is getting proposed to before Baby does. How does that sit with Baby?
FWIW, "engagement rings" are a 100-year-old invention created by DeBeers as a convenient way of monetizing the decline of the "bride price."
Exactly. I have always had negative thoughts on this concept. Yes, I want my dad to be okay with who I marry if I do so, but at the same time, assuming I've bought into the relationship enough to want to get married (and a man would be an idiot to propose to a woman not knowing if she wanted to get married, and hopefully, to them), if my dad says no, ain't gonna matter. And that has always been my go-to argument: OK, so you're asking "permission." What happens when Daddy says no ? Now that I think about it, I was engaged once. I don't think the guy asked my dad but I think it was also due to, well, my vehement disagreement with this topic.How does that sit with Baby?
That's what I wanted to post basically. I'm still engaged and not married yet, but I did ask her father. She knew how I felt about it and that I'm not going to "ask someone for the permission to marry you". But prior to my proposal she told me, that whenever I'll do it, it would help her a lot if I did it before proposing. Her parents are somewhat traditional and with us being a transatlantic couple, my proposal would've meant that she moved from the US to Europe. She was terrified of telling her parents herself, fearing that they may not be amused about my proposal. But I let her know, that I will propose to her, no matter what the parent's reaction will be. I once read a very, very accurate and good quote (I think it was by a user of reddit) in case the parents react negatively: "I'm asking you to join our family, I'm not asking for permission to join yours." That perfectly summed it up how I felt, and if he would've reacted negatively, that's what I would've told him. So in the end I did it for her, to make it easier in case her parents would have a negative reaction which could've been very hard for her to handle. But no matter what they would've told me, I wouldn't have changed my plans. That said, going to be married next year and still very, very happy about my parents in-law :)
I think it really depends on the woman, her relationship with her parents, any religious considerations, age, etc. In TNG's case, it was obviously the right choice. If I were to get married today, it would probably be a good idea for the guy to ask my parents. That way they can say, "You are fucking insane - you do not actually want to marry our feisty, young-as-fuck daughter right now. Give it some time you maniac." :P I don't have plans to marry anytime soon but I really don't see someone asking my dad/parents (they really are a singular unit) permission in 10 years. For one, I don't know if my parents will be around in 10 years. I also don't see my parents and I having an ultra-close relationship in the future. Our relationship has gotten better since high school but we still aren't close enough to talk about personal things like that and the conversations are usually fairly one sided: they tell me things, I consider them. I already get enough long-winded advise about about my life and my money and my career. I don't think I want to add love to that list. I know my parents will always be a part of my life but I prefer to keep my relationships and my parents as separate as possible. I realize that I'm far more independent and stubborn than some women and like to do things my way and find my own way in life. My dad would never expect a guy to ask his permission for that exact reason, although he would probably appreciate and respect the guy a bit more if he did. My dad would never say no though. Just, "Are you sure you?"