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comment by sounds_sound
sounds_sound  ·  4713 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: A question of conscience.
Poor conscience, no. Poor character, yes. Besides, killing someone that way is just the sort of thing that would drive me to drink. Bonus question: If your child comes to you and says "Mom/Dad, I want to and am going to try heroin and if you don't let me do it safely at home then I'm going to do it in the city." What do you say?




mk  ·  4713 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I guess I can see that. For my part, I feel like there's no penance for it, and that never having a drink again would somehow be fooling yourself like that mattered. It's you that killed the person, and you did that when you decided to drive and not think better of it. I feel like not having a future drink might be a way to publicly show your regret, but I don't know...

We also talked about an analogy: If you shot someone in a hunting accident, should you never hunt again? I guess these questions are unanswerable, but they are worth asking, I think.

For heroin kid, I'm going to ask them a lot of questions, and try to figure out their motivations. Heroin is not a drug to be taken lightly, and they are probably using other drugs already. I don't expect my kid to not do drugs because I disapprove. But I do hope that I can persuade them based on their concerns for their own well-being. I never met anyone that was doing heroin that was in a good place. I think all sorts of conversations would have to happen. Maybe take a trip with the kid to Alaska. The next day. Time to reevaluate and reconnect.

As an aside: The legal BAC in Michigan is 0.08. It's actually quite easy to reach, and you needn't feel drunk. Two beers within an hour is enough for me. It's reckless and irresponsible to drive after drinking, but living in metro Detroit in particular, everything is far apart, there is no public transport, and taxis cannot be found on the streets. As a result, people make judgement calls, and sometimes they judge wrong. Just tonight we almost saw a pedestrian get hit by a driver that was probably sober. I have to imagine every year people get killed by people that aren't what anyone would call 'drunk', but yet they are over the legal limit. I wish there were some public transport in this town. It's weird that every night, bars close and people drive home, and a good portion of them are doing so illegally.

thenewgreen  ·  4713 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I was just talking to my wife and she thinks (and I tend to agree here) that conscience and character are extremely intertwined. But I think I get what you are saying, that people can feel bad about their actions (conscience) but lack the resolve to eliminate drinking (poor character)... is that what you meant?

Heroin kid: I would talk to them. I would have a long, thoughtful discussion about why they want to try it (without getting outwardly angry). I would really want to know why they feel the need and what their expectations were of the drug. Then I would find someone that was a recovered junkie and invite them over to talk to them. That's my impulsive answer but you never know how you will handle such things until they are presented. Great questions though, both of them.

sounds_sound  ·  4713 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Yes. That's what I meant. There will never be a day that you don't think about that event and replay it over and over, but at what point do you decide to start living again? Listen to me....drinking=living. Anyway, did you ever see the movie Murderball? Well, one of the all-star atheletes, whom they highlight quite a bit, became disabled because he was at a party and passed out in the bed of his buddies truck. His friend drove away later that night, completely intoxicated and crashed and he flew out of the bed of the truck into the ditch and lost the use of his legs. They show a bit of their relationship on the screen. Here you have at one end a guy VERY good at his sport and reasonably successful because of his disability - at the other is his friend who can never forgive himself. Really, I think these are questions that are so deep and personal and about nuance that there will never be a right answer.
Lu  ·  4713 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I think that to never let yourself live down your mistakes and move on is a defiant move against personal progress and growth. While endangering someones life in such a careless way is a terrible and almost unforgivable thing, I would like to think that what makes us human is our ability to forgive (and to forgive oneself). Without that I think we remain entrenched in a vicious and relentless past.

As for the Heroine, I would like to think that I would embrace the desire for experimentation from my child. I actually put my mother in this situation when I was young (not with heroine but other drugs and alcohol). She accepted that I would try these things regardless of her acceptance and thus let my sister and I do what we were going to do anyway at home. And I have to say in hind sight, she did the right thing. I feel like that experience led me to develop a better sense of self-control and judgement, because it really was up to me.

thenewgreen  ·  4713 days ago  ·  link  ·  
As a parent I think that the alcohol/pot conversation is a very different thing than the heroin conversation. To pretend that these drugs exist in a similar category is a gross exaggeration. I think mk has it right with his trip to Alaska. -Not a punishment, just time to reconnect and figure some things out together. But I could not support or embrace my child's desire to experiment with heroin. I'd actually have a hard time with alcohol/pot too but I'd understand.