a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by hootsbox
hootsbox  ·  4817 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Debunking the Bunk
I think it is more "looking in the rear view mirror" of history as to what works and what does not work. For instance, our Founders had a good look at Totalitarianism, Monarchs with their fuedal systems, and such movements as the French Revolution (the reign of Terror - which turned into nothing more than unbridled jealousy and a murderous mob). They formed our country a lot on what to avoid. We can do the same. We can look at all that, plus we get to view the sytems of Fascism, the Nazi regime, the Marxist bred regimes of Communism, and the current democratic hybrid Democratic Socialist regimes. We can see which worked and which did not. Capitalism, it can be pointed out, has faults, but that is due more to the "nature of man" than the mechanisms to create a higher standard of living for the greater majority of people. I don't think it is as much "make it like my world view" as it is "make a wise choice from observing historical patterns and results. All political systems are subject to the "nature of man", and there is no true altruistic and benevolent form of government on earth period. So, let's make the wisest choices we can make. In our current world, Communism and Socialism have not worked well in history no matter where it has been implemented. To say, "We just haven't done it right" is being like an ostrich with its head in the sand" - they don't work - they destroy personal incentive, worth and the feeling of accomplishment. We you make the individual a subservient member of the state (you can call it the "greater good" if you want but its the same thing - study closely the French Revolution and its founders and look at the fruit on the tree), but we lose the incentive to achieve and achieve greatly and it breeds mediocrity and complacency. So, let's march on and "keep the faith so to speak".




mk  ·  4817 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I can agree with much of this. However, I think government can be a force for good when it enables us to live better together. We must make it so, because there is no alternative. We must have a form of government. The Founders did an amazing job, and we are lucky to have a living document that can adapt to our times.

Power is power. Whether it be government, corporate, or criminal, power can suppress. The state is subservient to me by design. No other power is. Of course, the state isn't wholly subservient to me, and it is very far from perfect, but it is in actually designed to serve me. Yes, if I am a potential customer, corporate power might bend to me, but only so far as that it can turn a profit from me. Corporate power bends to the state, and criminal power bends to violence and the state. We can have a healthy and subservient state. We must if we are to make sure that our rights aren't suppressed by other powers. IMO, "the nature of man" is the primary litmus test when designing government. That's why I am skeptical of libertarianism as much as communism, IMHO both are very fragile when exposed to the nature of man.

I agree about avoiding laws that destroy personal incentive. Keep people moving forward, and build a sense of purpose and growth.

hootsbox  ·  4784 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I would agree that government has a role: make the playing field free from government intervention into the marketplaces in lieu of letting the individual pursue their dreams and goals without fetters. This will produce the widest offerings of "public good" (i.e. Edison - the electric light bulb, Alexander Graham Bell - the telephone, the Wright Brothers - air flight, and on and on). This is the role of good government.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government....Thomas Jefferson