After complaining about a lack of privacy in Pubski yesterday, elizabeth and kleinbl00 both recommended I spend some time out of the house just to breathe a little. Today, I'm planning to relax at the coffee shop by my office after work, just to see how well I can really unburden myself there.
Klein taught me about third places, and I've been thinking about them off and on since yesterday.
- The third place is the social surroundings separate from the two usual social environments of home ("first place") and the workplace ("second place"). Examples of third places would be environments such as churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, or parks...In other words, "your third place is where you relax in public, where you encounter familiar faces and make new acquaintances."
I don't think third places are necessarily a social space in the status quo (as they might have been when they were conceived), but I love the idea of an intermediate and neutral public space that people go to relax.
So, where do you go to relax in public?
Supplemental:
The wiki article also suggests that we live in an era with "virtual third places". Do you have a virtual third place? Is Hubski a virtual third place?
The parks. I don't know how it is in other cities, but in Montreal parks are central to many people's social lives. First, the summer is short and people want to spend as much time as possible outside while it's nice out. Another thing is that while you can't drink on the street, you can drink in the parks if you're having a "picnic" aka have some food. Even before weed was legal, it was a popular smoking spot too. And you can bring your grill and do BBQs in most parks. So on weekends, the parks are super full. People slacklining, doing circus stuff, jamming, having birthday parties, playing games etc.. It's not uncommon to make a group chat and inform/invite all your friends to a hangout. The weekly self-organized drum circle on the mountain is rumoured to have started back in the 70's. There's always larpers around there too. And there used to be a DJ playing at the gazeebo. I've met a group of guys playing brazilian vinyls on a battery powered tricycle-speaker setup. It's a great low-pressure way to meet friends of friends, and just enjoy good weather. You can show up and leave anytime. Bring food, beer, a blanket and good company! I've had a couple days this summer where we "park-hopped" between 2-3 different circle of friends that decided to meet up somewhere outside. It's great :)
While I don't like the taste of Starbucks coffee (it tastes burned to me), I respect the company hugely for being the single largest provider of "third places" in the world. And that's no small thing. Especially for women and minorities, who have not had many safe places to gather. For example, if a woman is selling her laptop on Craigslist, where does she meet the buyer? In a parking lot? At a bar? At her home? At their home? Every one of these ideas is absolutely horrible, for myriad patently obvious reasons. "Let's meet at Starbucks." A safe, public place to meet, and have your transaction. It's fascinating to think of, if one (like me) can get out of my white middle aged American male frame of reference, and look at the world through someone else's eyes and experience. I think about Starbucks and the space they have created a LOT. Like, a couple of times every week. I have been to Starbucks on several different continents, islands, and countries, and seen the same experience around the world. Fuck the coffee. Who cares about that? I'm utterly fascinated with what they have created, culturally, across the world. That fascinates me. --- But when it comes to my "third place"? My privilege shines like a fucking beacon. I can be comfortable anywhere, anytime. I may go to dinner alone. I may go to a bar, and just sit and be by myself for a while. Chat with the bartender. Or not. I may go to a park with a book. Or go for a drive in my car. Because I am a while middle-aged American male, I can make myself comfortable anywhere. A woman sitting alone at a bar? In a restaurant? In a park? She's a target for men. Me? I'm just some dude who gets left alone. So my "third place" is anywhere... because I am confident, comfortable in my skin, and privileged. While the privilege part sucks, because others don't have it, I am able to make use of it and be comfortable anywhere as my Third Place. I'm kinda conflicted about that. A bit.
This is a tangent - but did you hear the awesome news about Starbucks announcing medical benefits that support trans individuals by covering several treatments and surgeries that most insurers wouldn’t touch?
I would argue that prior to the commonality of Starbucks the general place of meeting was libraries and post offices. Post offices, of course, being assailed by the demise of social projects. Libraries these days are pretty much where the white people aren't. Try it: if you wanna see what the demographics of the 50% are in your neighborhood, go to the library. My neighborhood is startlingly Somali and Ethiopian. I would also argue that Starbucks hates black people.
Weirdly enough, watchmaking class. There were only six or seven of us towards the end, but it was a place I could go hang out , crack jokes, do something engaging and be with people who I was neither related to nor had any control over my ability to earn. I'm through all the watchmaking and I now have equipment every bit as good at home. There's a clockmaking class, though. I told my wife I wasn't really into it because I'm kind of sick of "class" and she said "you come home happy every Monday night. Don't discount that." There's also a peculiarly-underpriced Erwin Sattler on eBay right now that doesn't even have a case. sigh
Mine is gone. Our library is awesome, and I go there more than I went to Ernst & Son, but so many people use it that you're pretty anonymous. They only people I recognize at the library are either staff or people who I know from another context and are at the library to use their meeting rooms. I've never said to myself "Ah, that's _____ from that one time at the library!"
Cafe's are easy go-to's. Places to read: On the coast, I'd go to the beach after work for the sound of the waves. Cheap Japanese sushi buffets with good selection. Any ol' asian buffet just won't do it - quality of ingredients is usually noticeably better. Occasionally, rides on the highway.
The library. Just the concept really but specifically my local one I suppose. I spend quite of time at home, I feel like I can relax and focus there but if I'm in a town and have to wait for something and can't go home the library is always my go to. You can usually charge your phone/laptop, you can find a book to read and pass the time, it's quiet and nice. I recognize the people And online I suppose hubski really is an online third place? The same familiar faces going about their lives talking about whatever.
To be fair, "a third place" was one of mk's original visions for Hubski. This is one of the points of contention with new users: every time we have them, they demand that the place meet their expectations, rather than what the place is. Those of us who were here early have now been here ten years. Obviously we need young new blood in order to keep from becoming a Moose Lodge but at the same time, being dictated to never makes anybody happy. And as with any venue, as the clientele shifts so does the character.
Huh, I didn't realize I was asking about the whole impetus for Hubski's design in the first place! That's cool, I'm learning all sorts of new stuff from this thread Do you have feelings/thoughts on striking a balance between getting new blood and maintaining the old charm?
LOL do you really need to ask? My thoughts and feelings, though, aren't so much about the demographics of Hubski as they are about the greater internet community. This place was started as a refuge of thoughtful discussion as Hacker News became more and more tech focused and Reddit became more caustic and trivial. The refugees we tended to get were looking for "old Reddit", a place that could credibly claim to be semi-intellectual. The people seeking that sort of discussion tend to not be settled into their lives. They're seekers. They have questions and they don't know who to ask. Being surrounded by others who are struggling with the same thing makes you feel less alone. Getting an opinion from someone who's been through what you're going through counts for a lot. My involvement in online communities has always been different. For me, "The Internet" since about 2006 has been a place where people younger than me ask for advice. That's the human connection I value. And what I think has changed is that there isn't enough representative Internet where "advice" is something you can ask for anymore. So nobody's coming to Hubski because it's better than Reddit; anybody looking to figure their shit out is no longer going to get a credible answer anywhere else on the Internet. The landbridge has submerged. We are the Galapagos. And really - the people who needed advice have gotten it and have moved on while the people who built an online community where they could hang out are too busy with real life. Really, we're a victim of our own success - this place has been a part of lots of people getting their shit together but once their shit is together there are better communities than online ones.Do you have feelings/thoughts on striking a balance between getting new blood and maintaining the old charm?
Lmao not really, but I wanted to hear you out anyway! I like your thoughts, though. Interesting in the light that I came out of my hiatus right after graduating college and while I was trying to figure out all sorts of shit...Well, am. Present tense. I think there's something to what you're saying that's reflected in my subconscious and my recent actions. I don't think I have anything to add to this discussion - You've spent more time thinking on it, and I agree with everything you say. The only thing I can mention is that I enjoy Hubski in the status-quo, and I hope to stay active. Thanks for the good thoughts (as always)!LOL do you really need to ask?
I think band/music stuff generally speaking is my third place. It's really the only physical interpretation of a third space that can also be considered "social". Thinking about your situation though, I suppose running is my most important "recharge" activity. It's not social for me though. Going to a park/trail and getting some endorphins in some natural scenery has a good way of releasing pent-up stress and all sorts of junk. I've been not-so-great at doing that with our 100-degree days lately.
I don’t really have a third place, outside of Hubski, work and home. But my work takes me to a lot of places. I guess airports are my third place these days. I do love riding my bike though. Also, going to the pool. That’s a great time. But the bike and the pool are always with others. Not just me. Maybe I need a third place....
Hubski is 100% a "third place" for me. I travel and move around so much that it's become difficult to establish any type of comfortable place away. In North Carolina it was a climbing gym, on my last extended work trip it was a cafe. I haven't been quite able to find anything similar in Germany. Hubski is always here with more or less the same cast of characters. KB's description perfectly describes how I participate in this community: I may not directly interact, but I also feel no need to. Reading about the projects, struggles, and successes of complete strangers is comforting.
To be fair, I think I've misrepresented the concept by wanting to be a hermit: A third place is somewhere you go that isn't work or home, but it's conventionally defined as a neutral social space where you can interact with strangers. If that's biking or the pool, then you've found your third space! If not, maybe it'd be fun to experiment with if you have the spare time :)
An important aspect of "third places" is that they are place where you don't necessarily interact with "strangers" but more that there's a steady set of individuals who, while they might not be friends, are at least people you know and have expectations of. The seminal book Bowling Alone is about the decline and fall of third places in American society and the effect it has had on health, culture and politics.