I guess I'll play devils advocate and ask why it's not ok for a white woman to dress as a geisha? Or for that matter a black man? If gender can be fliuid why can't race or culture? Imo people get upset way too easily and want to control what others can and cannot do. If someone wants to rave in faux native head dress I say go for i if that enhances their trip. Why can't an Asian guy wear full cowboy gear? Or colonial clothes or even a uniform from the civil war? IMO Nobody owns a cultural copyright on those even if they think they do. We're just too afraid that someone might get offended and that we get offended in anticipation that someone else might. As for Mongolians and sushi its kind of a weird example, if someone cooks a lot they may very well know how to make it. If they don't they probably don't know, regardless of ethnicity. We live in such a global society it's silly to limit oneself to only food or dress from your own little ethnic sub group.
I'd recommend looking at my reply to WanderingEng for an answer on Cowboys, and you can expand that to civil was garb as well. I would say that someone from the North wearing a Southern Confederacy uniform would definitely get some flack at a party unless you were in a reenactment group or some such, and for similar reasons to these other costumes- It's not generally coming from a place of celebration, it's coming from a place of ... well, mockery feels like a strong word but it's in the right direction. For the Mongolian Sushi example, I think I made it pretty clear the person wasn't asking if they knew how to make sushi because they know the Mongolian person is a good cook. they're doing it because of the colour of their skin. If I wasn't clear then, I'm certainly doing my best to be so now. If you take on a race, are you willing to take on the baggage of that race, too? If you decide to be black, are you going to advocate for all of the issues that face black people and people of darker skin where you live? Are you willing to be seen as lesser and effeminate because you're an asian man? (again, see my comment to wanderingEng for a source on this stereotype) The difference here is that you're like a race "drag" character. Like a drag queen, who puts on their femininity for one night, or for a performance, but can scrub it all away and still be treated as a man, you would be washing off your black-ness, or your asian-ness to be treated as a white person again. Regular asian people or black people can't scrub off their skin colour and be treated with more respect, as you would be doing.If gender can be fluid why can't race or culture?
So the reason I don't call myself a feminist unless I feel like explaining myself is because it's too broad of a word so I'm not achieving anything by saying it. The term cultural appropriation has the same problem I feel. Are people dressing in drag considered offensive ? As a woman it doesn't bother me if a man puts on a dress or make up one night since they'll never actually be me. They will always be the man just in different clothing. Does dressing like a tomboy make me less of a woman for the day ? I think that's bullshit and it's 100% the other side of the coin. We can't say that a man is actually changing their experience by dressing in drag but say women are always women. They'll never change their overall life experience by throwing on a dress. Now am I going to get upset and think things like oh he can walk around in a dress without worrying about access to women's reproductive healthcare ? Not even a little, I can throw on some combat boots and put my hair in a ponytail without having to worry about getting weird looks at the park with my niece. ;) I'm sure your're well aware of the whole controversy that now exists over feminists using language that suggests you need to be born female to be a woman. Like protest signs at the women's march saying things like pussy power alienating trans women. The thing is though that myself and a trans woman do not have the same life experience. I do not envy their life experience but we can't deny they are different. In the 70's they did a study ( and I do hope if they did it now it would be different however I'm thinking it won't have changed much.) were they took the same baby but dressed it in pink or blue to see how adults would react. When they thought the baby was female they talked about how beautiful she was and when they thought the baby was male they talked about what career he would have. So who is the woman's march for ? Is it wrong to discuss women's issues in the context of women who were born that way ? Are we allowed to talk about pussy power when it's about woman's reproductive health ? This isn't "cultural" but it's absolutely relevant to the discussion of different life experiences not being respected as such. Should it bother me that people who did not experience my childhood as a girl are trying to push into "my space" without taking on my baggage ? Are we not allowed to make clever slogans about our ovaries when we are talking about women's reproductive healthcare? Some people do think this which was evident after that march. I agree with what WanderingEng said about intent, if a guy dresses like a girl and starts making fun of women I'll just show him up like I've done countless times in my life. Shit feels good. I don't want some guy in a dress to take on my baggage. I would rather he just know not to fuck with me. At my first job one of the managers I worked with uncomfortably asked me if I was expecting a certain job in the summer that my female manager was going to give to a male simply because they were male ( I was more qualified) since he knew me. When she mentioned it to two of my male managers they both told her to watch out because they knew I wouldn't just take that. I can't wash off my femininity but honestly I don't know why I would want too. I have baggage and I have problems but I take pride in myself and what my gender has achieved. I take pride in earning that job, and I take pride that my bosses knew I wouldn't accept anything less than I deserved. Men can enjoy their dress today and wearing pants when it's hot AF out to look "professional". I might not get treated with respect because I was born with certain parts but I get treated with respect in every job I've ever had because I demand it without having to dress less feminine. Sometimes I get annoyed that I have a bit more of a struggle but I actually find people who haven't struggled at all to be incredibly boring. Sometimes I falter and forget to respect myself enough or demand that others give me the same respect but I'm 23 ffs. Is mocking another culture shitty ? Sure, but it's not fair to assume somebody is always mocking you. Blackface and the slanty eye thing are obviously mocking. Dressing in a kimono isn't mocking somebody, it's just enjoying a piece of clothing until you know, the slanty eyes come out.
Ok. there's a lot to unpack here. Let me start by saying that I myself am a trans woman, so this will colour my perspective. Let's start with Drag. I personally have conflicting feeling about drag, but at the end of the day I realize that they're generally about me and not about the people performing, so i leave them to have fun. Drag is performative, inherently. A person dresses up as a hypermasculine or hyperfeminine character for the purpose of entertainment. While in costume, they are generally treated as the gender that their "character" is, though this isn't an across the board truth. The point being from all this is that when a man dons women's clothing for the purpose of drag performance, they are being performatively feminine without having to deal with all of the real world issues of being a woman. This is why i made the comparison that I did - when people co-opt race and culture, they are able to live in that skin and then walk away from it once they are done, or once they get bored, or once they get hurt. People of colour don't get that luxury, and that's what people need to recognize and respect, and it's what they're not respecting when they use another person's culture as a costume. Moving on to another kettle of fish altogether. You're right. you and I have vastly different life experiences. I didn't have to go through puberty in high school as a woman. I'm in the process of what you could call a second puberty now, but it's pretty different, and it's definitely not in high school. So yes, we have different experiences. But there are also multitudes of other women who for one reason or another are unable to have children, and there are trans men who are in the process of having children, while presenting as a man. There are women who are infertile, there are women who can't have vaginal intercourse without pain, there are intersex women who don't have a fully formed vagina, and intersex women who have unclear genitalia, or even penises naturally. What you have to recognize is that when you discuss "women's issues in the context of women who were born that way", you are excluding all of those people. All of those women are women who were born that way (and for the record, i didn't "become a woman" either. I was born the way I am, and I'm a woman). You are saying "my feminism is for people who look like me and whose bodies act exactly like mine." That's a pretty shit way to think, in my view, but my feminism is intersectional and includes all of those people. When I talk about reproductive health it includes ALL of those people, because otherwise we're only having half of a conversation or less. There is no unified experience of being a woman. that's true. But there are many times when people do something offensive and don't even realize that it's offensive. It doesn't have to be intentional. The problem with this is that often, as a defense mechanism, people double down on being offensive by then repeating the action KNOWING that the other person finds it offensive. Indeed, that very defense mechanism is what 90% of this conversation is about, the other 10% generally boiling down to " Well if I can't make fun of X, who can I make fun of?" Again, i feel like I should clarify, it's not always about "mocking" people. Sometimes it's a fetishization of culture. Kimonos are pretty special and specific garb. remember, we're not talking about this kind of kimono: Go ahead and wear that thing, no one cares. We're talking about this kind of kimono. It's heavy, It's impractical, it takes a very long time to put on (and you need help to tie it properly) and If you're not going to a tea ceremony or a wedding, you'd better have a pretty good reason to wear one or you're a lunatic (or a masochist). It's the equivalent of walking around in a wedding dress (including its current cultural use). Like I said in my original post, if you really want to wear one of these, and you get one made for you by someone in Japan who you paid a fair wage, then go for it. I would suggest you question why exactly you want to do that, though. Is it because you love the garment, or is there a fetishization of that culture going on? Why not just buy a dress that has a Japanese influence, or has some kimono detailings? It'd be more practical, for one. If it "must" be a kimono, then I'd suggest there's something more about what the garment represents than the garment itself that you are looking for, meaning that there's a level of cultural fetishization going on.The thing is though that myself and a trans woman do not have the same life experience. I do not envy their life experience but we can't deny they are different.
So who is the woman's march for ? Is it wrong to discuss women's issues in the context of women who were born that way ?
t's not fair to assume somebody is always mocking you.
Dressing in a kimono isn't mocking somebody, it's just enjoying a piece of clothing
First of all I started my post by telling you I don't generally use the term feminism because it doesn't mean anything specific to me so I would ask that you refrain from defining "my feminism" for me. I get that you've dealt with shit but I don't appreciate you projecting it on me and find it very rude. The issue you list about women including those that can't have babies or have pain during sex are reproductive health issues. Women who have been identifying as female since day one have different life experiences from those that haven't. This isn't just about puberty, we were treated differently in our youth and that shapes us. I didn't say I have a problem with anybody who wants to be included in feminism but I've definitely seen it in certain circles. This is basically my problem with feminism, my believing one thing doesn't mean another "feminist" does as well. Poor descriptive word. The point is the baggage isn't the same and if somebody was identifying as male for part of their life they benefited from that during the same formative years that those identifying as female did not. Some feminists have a problem with that. They take issue that somebody who enjoyed this privilege now wants to dictate how they are allowed to express themselves as feminists. It's not like these groups hide away never to be seen on the internt. Everybody in that situation has a point. I wouldn't like if some rich woman who had never been in a position where she has to deal with certain issues tried to tell me how I was allowed to be as a feminist. Just like how a woman of colour doesn't wants a privileged white woman to tell her how she is allowed to express herself. I also see how others want to be included in that circle. What is the difference though of saying well you can't dress like me because you haven't dealt with my shit and saying well you can't call yourself a women because you haven't dealt with my shit ? Women do all have varying experiences just like people of every race, religion, and economics status have. We have general stats for all of them even so. I'm for live and let live. On the topic of fetishizing since this is another one of those words that gets thrown around poorly what is the difference between fetishizing a feature and being attracted to it ? I see this a lot with bigger girls, when is it fetishizing and when is it just that somebody is attracted to larger women ? What is the difference between fetishizing a kimono and thinking it's cute ?