And I mean getting regular gun permits and the like. No matter what you think, we all have a right to protect ourselves. So I don't want to hear, "But they shouldn't" I want to hear hypothesis for what might happen and then solutions.
Concealed Carry is Up From the Article . . . Between 2012 and 2014 the number of black permit holders increased from 10,389 to 17,594, according to the report. Black females were the fastest-growing concealed handgun permit group, increasing 3.44 times faster than white females. “The stereotype of the gun owner being a middle-aged male white guy from the South is simply not correct anymore,” Mr. Keene said.Although white males are still the largest concealed carry permit-holding group, the number of permits obtained by blacks accelerated the most, with Asians and American Indians following in second.
Then maybe a better question would be, "What if Blacks protected themselves with said guns?"
I don't think it's fair to assume rd95 disagrees with something in particular. Rather, I read it as, "I am uncomfortable with this conversation and could it see going very poorly, so I will not be participating." And, I mean, it really hasn't been superb thus far.
Can you tell us why? Also: thank you very much for the information -- I figured that may be the case, but wasn't sure. After all, I haven't heard of any such black people being gun downed.
Ooooookaaaaaay...? I'm sorry you do not feel comfortable in discussing America's (and other countries') bigotry against people of color -- specifically blacks.
Man, you know what they say about assumptions.
...
"Do that shit all the time, it always works 10/10"
To be fair the initial question and the OP responses appear to be inviting that civil war. I'm out as well. He can tell other people and start his war.
That's exactly what I want to discuss. Solutions for making sure that doesn't happen. There is a huge international discussion going on about the oppression of colored people and their colonization by whites as well as subsequent affects. What can we do to make sure the world isn't destroyed while we are throwing off such shackles?
People use People of Color.. how is that different than colored people? Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just ignorance.
you're probably long gone now but PoC was chosen by PoC and not assigned to them by white folx so it's different by orders of magnitude
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What, did every colored person in the world go up to the Un and demand that they be referred to as "People of Color"? Otherwise you have no clue if it was" assigned" or not. Whether you put the adjective before are after the noun makes no difference.
Welcome to hubski. Try being less antagonistic if you want to have a conversation. Words and their order absolutely matter, especially in the context of identities. Via textual analysis, you can trace the usage of terms. Here is a good NPR article that summarizes how the terms have changed. "People of Color" connotates a community, which is why many PoC prefer to use it. Obviously it's not without criticism.
Okay that article says nothing about the term "colored people" being assigned to them. Nor does it say anything about what the difference is. And how does "People of Color" connotate a community while "colored people" doesn't? You can describe baseball fans as "baseball fans" or "fans of baseball" and it still has the same meaning.
last quote of the article:
"Colored people" was used to degrade and ostracize PoC by white people. There is something to be said about putting the noun before the adjective because it brings the definition back to being about the person, not their attribute (ex. person with Autism rather than autistic person is another one I've seen argued). It's about self-designation and reclaiming personhood. eta: this wound up in my drafts for a long time and goo hit the point pretty well"People of color explicitly suggests a social relationship among racial and ethnic minority groups. ... [It is] is a term most often used outside of traditional academic circles, often infused by activist frameworks, but it is slowly replacing terms such as racial and ethnic minorities. ... In the United States in particular, there is a trajectory to the term — from more derogatory terms such as negroes, to colored, to people of color. ... People of color is, however it is viewed, a political term, but it is also a term that allows for a more complex set of identity for the individual — a relational one that is in constant flux."
Salvador Vidal-Ortiz, Encyclopedia of Race, Ethnicity and Society
The way I've been taught is how the words define you. There is a similar discussion about whether to say "disabled people" or "people with a disability." The idea is, "people of colour" indicates you are a person first, and being coloured is a secondary feature. "Coloured people" indicates you are first defined as coloured, and as a person after the fact.
Because those who are a part of the oppressing class shouldn't have this discussion? Are you not interested in learning why some of these people are like this and what you can do to be a part of a positive change? Why is it that when someone -- anyone -- brings this up, the first thing you think of is "race war"? No one wants that. Don't forget the history. It was your people who did this. We ALL have to fix it now.
The oppressing class has no place in telling the oppressed why they shouldn't revolt. Why is the first thing we think of "race war"? Because we are recognizing the history. Of course nobody wants it, but there is every reason for there to be a race war. And it's a miracle there hasn't already been another. Yes, we do all have to fix this. But believe me, white people telling black people how to refrain is sure as hell not the way to do it.
I'm not telling you to tell us how to react--which I think you could have figured out, what with all this information going around. I'm asking you why you all seem to think when we say, "You should be accountable" you immediately think of how you should tell US what to do, instead of how to tell YOURSELVES what to do.
Well are blacks in America with guns getting together and making plans on how to protect themselves? If there is no major organization, then it's not going to be seen as a major threat. Unorganized fighting can be quickly taken down. A good amount of violence and killings happens in America each and every day but it doesn't really affect the grand majority of the country because it's so isolated to the point that it's impact is so minimal to a lot of people.
Exactly what would be a better way to defend ourselves against a force which is neither there to protect or serve us? It's worse for black people but it affects ALL of us under tyrannical governments..which is all of us.
I don't know. I know that collecting guns to protect yourself from the police is not a good way to not get shot by the police. Any kind of antiauthoritarian politics in the US is crippled by being spread over too many mutually contradictory ideologies. Get the libertarian left to stop fighting primarily with itself, the libertarian right to let go of enough racism to see that the jackbooted thugs are still jackbooted thugs when they're stomping on brown people, the techies to start noticing that people who aren't their fellows get mistreated by the law too, ... , and get them to come to similar understandings with each other, and you have a coalition that can do things. This does not seem very likely.
I try to make one point from time to time. I feel there's too much focus on distinctions that make a difference. I think the great problem with our current society is not racism, nor is it sexism, or class; consumerism or denialism. Those are all, rather, manifestations of one thing. Assholes. Too many assholes. Or, Authoritarian Personalities, if you prefer. But I think "Asshole" is a better word - it's more difficult to argue that it's a feature instead of a bug.
I don't really see an issue with it. It's a legal permit. I don't think blacks arming themselves is any different from whites arming themselves. Race doesn't need to be a factor. There may be some groups out there who may have a problem with it but it's still a second amendment right. As a matter of fact, I could see peoples standing up for black's right to be armed who you might not think would. The country is very big on the right to own a weapon and I think that, in many cases, supercedes the race issue.
Except our nation's history. Which is what I'm asking about.
Except our nation's history. Which is what I'm asking about. Can you clarify? I don't understand this in response to what I posted.
You're saying blacks arming themselves is no different than whites. Excepts for centuries blacks have been subjugated, oppressed (murdered, raped, unfairly treated, having their cultures destroyed etc into the present day) in many different countries, even in Africa. So, yeah, it is different.
I don't believe it is different. I believe that there are people who do believe it is different but that's not all write people. You sir are perpetuating racism while denouncing it. I will see myself out as well as this is not conducive to progress.
Oh. You're one of those people who think discussing racism is the same thing as being racist. Yeah, you see yourself out. Because you clearly have no idea what racism is, even while clearly having full access to the internet and Google.
You are claiming that all our at least most of whites are racist. That generalizing based on race. Aka racism. Have fun with your white hate speech and your war.
When did I say.. "all white people"? I'll wait. Because everyone with a little common sense knows it isn't just white people who are anti-black. EDIT: And still, you gloss over facts.
Your tone doesn't really invite discussion, nor are you facilitating discussion with your points. You seem as if you're looking for reasons to fight, not discuss, and you're not even fighting very eloquently. And by the way, I'm a Black person, and quite far left. Hubski seems like a place full of intelligent, thoughtful people. I'd like to think that even on the difficult topics, we could take advantage of that fact and really have interesting discussions, but not if people come in and just try to start shit rather than actually make cogent points and discuss them intelligently.
The one time in history the NRA supported gun control was when the Black Panthers were advocating open carry, back in the 70's. different - or rather, no different than it was in 1860 or, probably 1760.
At one end of the possibilities: A repeat of the 1967 Mulford Act when Ronald Reagan banned open carry in California in response to the Black Panthers there. It's hard to predict how such a movement would turn out today though. Doubtless it would get bad press from Fox, maybe it would lead to conflicts with overzealous police, possibly it could lead to a change in law?...
I really laughed more than I should have. It's like watching a movie that you know the ending to. And it's still pretty entertaining.
I see violence as a natural reaction. Wars were won history was written. Young men want to fight for freedom and change history. Made more sense when gangs were about protecting neighborhoods from crooked police and crime, than the crack era. I see the resent spike in racial problems coming from the loosening of the drug war. Living in a liberal city black people tended to be cooler and smarter than most. A few other places I have met some really awful black people. They are individual people; some are awesome, some are jerks. Why is that so hard for people to figure out?
So I get "#flamebait" because white people don't want to talk about white people's issues with black people/POC?
You're very eager to paint people here as racists.
I changed it from "#Grendel". I can change it back if you prefer. But given how you're making a topic about arming up, then ensuring that people responding factually know that it's a post about "black people protecting themselves with guns", getting angry at people for opting out of the discussion, and angry at people for thinking a race war, and then issuing a series of comments about "When shit goes down", I think it's fair to warn people before they come in. If you don't want this to be a flamebait post, then don't make it one.
No one painted anyone as racists. 1. Just because someone mentions black people arming themselves =/= race war.
2. Opting out of the discussion because.. what? Because something is happening you don't want to discuss? Okay.
3. Thinking a race war.. on ASSUMPTIONS which were already plainly pointed out.
4. Shit is going down RIGHT NOW -- hence the discussion.
5. No one made it "flamebait" -- peoples' inability to address the topic without making the same assumptions you just posted makes it one.
0. Not me. 1. Guns are made for 2 things. Sport and war. This isn't sport. 2. Opting out of the discussion because nobody is obliged to discuss anything. 3. Still not sport. 4. So are there black people defending themselves with the hypothetical guns they're arming with and why would I be worried about dying if it's not a race war you're talking about? 5. You're baiting the shit out of people here and responding in the most amazingly hostile way when they don't follow your script. Stop it.
How about this: Fuck you and fuck everyone on this site which I am now sure is at least 90% -- unreasonable -- white people? I'm out.
It wouldn't surprise me if the site is predominantly white either. But you know what? I'd hedge a bet that most of us understand why you're angry and why you're scared. That doesn't make your behavior here acceptable. Your own fear has never been a good reason to make someone else afraid.
When the shit goes down how many of you are going to stand up with your black friends or are you still going to be trying to ignore it and/or hope you don't die? I see so many of you not addressing the larger posts I made. If you don't have the empathic capacity to see where this question is coming from then how are you going to react positively to us uplifting and protecting ourselves en masse or individually? If your first instinctual reaction to the IDEA of blacks organizing to protect themselves is fear and unwillingness to even discuss the reality of the situation in America, then white people need to start asking themselves a lot of questions because this is frankly ridiculous and...sobering.
I'm sorry that the majority of people here can't see what is going on--after phenomenal evidence. I don't want to assume anything, but based on the responses, it seems fairly safe to say that you are all white identified. No one wants war. I think most people want peace and are good people. The only reason there WILL be a war is this ignorance being perpetuated about white's place in it. You are the beneficiaries and upholders of a system which has oppressed colored people all over the world. I am sure many of us are angry.. but none of us want war. Maybe you should consider why that is the only place your thoughts go when we want to discuss solutions.
"White people" =/= All White People. Why the fuck does every black person have to say that shit? Stop letting fear override logic. We all know what the history is.
So, "white people=/=all white people", but every Black person "say[s] that shit"?
Except that on second reading, I think the person is indicating that in conversations about race, Black people often have to hasten to reassure (white) people that they aren't talking about every single white person, which should go without saying. That, I agree with. I misread.
Ya'll having a shit storm and not even offering solutions. You know damn well what may happen. What white people have done to blacks. You're all worried. You haven't been getting killed for centuries for no other reason than your skin tone. I get it. Black people don't want war. We aren't oppressing people, murdering them, keeping them from progressing in every way we can. We want peace. How many other people do? I am specifically talking about bigots and you all are talking like I'm saying it is you, personally. After all this. Maybe you should think about that. I have to worry about some dumb ass harassing me or shooting me for no other reason at all than that they're ignorant. At least I'm talking about protecting myself and not.... what these people out here are doing (like shooting up churches and hanging innocent black women)
I think ya'll could've inferred what I meant.
I feel like you are actually asking "would white people feel uncomfortable or attack black's for wanting to own and carry guns." Am I off base? Never underestimate peoples ability to misunderstand what you are inferring.
Seeing as how you actually -- more or less -- replicated my question.. I see I was not underestimating anything. People know what is happening. This is voluntary ignorance and apathy. It's almost as bad as all those people who said, "Don't worry about the environment" while knowing damn well what was going to happen.
Is only able to understand what you were inferring based on your responses to other peoples comments. Passive aggressiveness gets you nowhere my friend. I'm from Minnesota, we wrote that book.
..ok. What rock are you living under? Oh right, Minnesota.