a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by organicAnt
organicAnt  ·  3693 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Hey, let's have a discussion about eating meat

It seems we've started on the wrong footing. There's so much personal attack and barely any meat eating discussion. I accept that my views aren't popular and I understand the consequences of that. People feel I'm attacking their way of living and they feel the need to attack me, the messenger, back. I will not reply to ad hominem attacks, they're a waste of time. I'm not interested in insulting anyone, it's not productive. If you feel insulted please re-read what I wrote and ask yourself if I was really insulting you or if the point I made stirred some anger inside of you. Am I being really self-righteous or are you out of arguments and a personal attack is all your hurt ego can muster? On a side note, bear in mind that English isn't my first language and I think I lack the tactile way of communicating in writing, hence the aid of smiley faces.

Our experiences and environment make who we are and we should all meet each other where we're at with respect and an open-mind. My views may be wrong, but even if so I feel it's healthy to challenge social conventions on a regular basis, to ensure that we do the things we do because we truly believe in them and not because of peer pressure. We'd be appalled at some of the things that were socially acceptable even just a century ago so it'd be naive to think that there's no improvement to be made to our current main-stream ethical values.

For those that argue that plants might suffer just as much as animals. If you feel empathy for plants as much as you care about animals, then that's one further reason to eat just plants since the amount of plants that it takes to feed an animal is an order of magnitude higher than if you eat the plants directly. If you don't feel empathy towards any of them, then ask yourself why and then try for a moment to put yourself in the skin of the animal you eat.

I'm asking very simple questions. Do we need to eat meat? If so why? Is there any scientific reason to eat meat or are the reasons purely based on tradition, what our parents fed us because their parents fed them because of their parents fed them and so on. Is it perhaps due to self-indulgence?

Let's take a moment of reflection, to put ourselves on the hooves of those we have chosen to prey upon. How does it feel to feel pain? If we were a non-human animal would we prefer life or death? If we'd prefer life why do we have the double standard for those who's flesh we eat? Has anyone heard of specieism? Why do we treat certain animals with love and affection while it's accepted that others exist for exploitation?

To end my point here's a 10min speech by someone way more eloquent than me. It's an excerpt of the debate Animals Should be Off the Menu.





humanodon  ·  3693 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's the tone, sport.

kleinbl00  ·  3693 days ago  ·  link  ·  

More than that, it's the self-centered derailment of another topic, followed by the specific creation of a forum to discuss that topic, followed by a refusal to discuss that topic once it was created, followed by ignoring the 60-odd thoughtful, measured, and reason-based arguments presented.

If this were a discussion of gaming, it would be a post about someone's Smash Bros tournament in which another person replies to every comment with a Halo screengrab. This would then lead to a well-measured discussion in which the merits of Nintendo over XBox were discussed in great detail only to have the Xbox fanboi complain that everyone was attacking him.

Smileyface.

Sure, English as a second language and all that but if you're going to wander into a crowd and make the discussion about you you'd bloody well better be fluent in their language.

organicAnt  ·  3692 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm not making the discussion about me, you are. As I said, it's easy to join the pitch fork crowd. Much harder to come up with a logical argument for meat consumption.

user-inactivated  ·  3693 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    you'd bloody well better be fluent in their language.

That's right bitches, if the words wavedash, L-cancel, Sex-Kick, Prat-Fall, Pivot-Grab and edgehog mean nothing to you than you cannot show me your moves, nor fight for my friends.

Also:

thenewgreen  ·  3693 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For the record, outside of "cows would rather live than die," this is the first comment I've seen where you express "your views." That's been the crux of the criticism.

I'm glad to discuss your views but have not been able to carefully read your comment. I'm actually in a grocery store, buying carrots and "something for dessert." -no meat.

Edit: stopped by Chipotle and got a chicken burrito. Blame insomniasexx

More to come

insomniasexx  ·  3693 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I had a chicken bowl yesterday. I also took a 2 hour food coma nap afterwards. Woke up feeling like I could sleep through the night. I'm heading to the gym now. :)

bioemerl  ·  3693 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There aren't many ad hominem attacks here. There are a few, but the lion's share of comments do not mention you at all, if not very little.

    If you don't feel empathy towards any of them, then ask yourself why and then try for a moment to put yourself in the skin of the animal you eat.

If you do, you are wrong, if you don't, you are wrong also.

I think you understand this, but people make the claim plants feel pain for the reason above. It's not that we value plants, it's that we see animals the same way you would see plants.

I may as well ask you to put yourself in the shoes of a personified piece of celery.

    I'm asking very simple questions. Do we need to eat meat? If so why? Is there any scientific reason to eat meat or are the reasons purely based on tradition, what our parents fed us because their parents fed them because of their parents fed them and so on. Is it perhaps due to self-indulgence?

Why is easy to answer. We, humans, learned to hunt and eat meat ages ago, and have greatly benefited from it in terms of how much we could gather and keep. We probably started scavenging meat from dead bodies, and then learned to hunt, developing our deadly trait of jogging things to death, making a requirement to work in groups, making a requirement for socialization, and so the story goes.

We eat meat because that's what humans have always done, and probably will always do. Not so much due to culture, but due to our nature of being scavengers/hunters/omnivores.

"feral" humans tend to be not so nice. I imagine they wouldn't have an issue with eating meat.

    Let's take a moment of reflection, to put ourselves on the hooves of those we have chosen to prey upon.

Why does it matter?

Empathy is an emotion. Let it control you and it is no better than anger or hate or pride.

It's an emotion "made" to let humans get together and work as a society, not one designed to hold us back and stop us from eating animals.

(technically it's just evolution, a random trait not meant to do anything that turned out to have a positive benefit, I'm looking at this from a post-benefit view)

    Why do we treat certain animals with love and affection while it's accepted that others exist for exploitation?

If you want to discuss the logic and ideals behind the seemingly twisted and corrupt morals of humanity, you are going to have to ask me. It deserves it's own specified rant.

And speak for yourself, I have no time for videos.