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comment by Skippy
Skippy  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: More Young People Are Moving Away From Religion, But Why?

I... am in total agreement. That's what I said. It looks like I left out "I'm sometimes gulity" bit. I'll go back and edit.





BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So then what do you look forward to?

megaman  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'd like to refer both of you here. There's a bit at the end where he talks about mystery, that would be my answer, at least.

Skippy  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Mystery should not be seen as an excuse never to question-- in that, I would agree with Tim Minchin. What I dislike about that approach is that the material and empirical try to claim the immaterial and ideal. The material is incredibly important, and I don't wish to deny that; however, the material is not all of reality. The material is simply what can be observed empirically. Different tools must be used for different aspect of reality, and the best tool we have for the immaterial is not empiricism.

megaman  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I would agree, however your stance rests on the assumption that existence contains the immaterial, and I do not agree with that. There is no such thing as immaterial in my eyes.

Skippy  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I maintain that reality contains the immaterial, not necessarily existence. Existence as a term forces us into a certain understanding of the world, which would not necessarily include Reality. I would agree that there is no such thing as the immaterial in your eyes, as your (and my!) eyes can only perceive the material. However, I have experienced certain.... unquantifiable things that are [currently] best expressed through spiritual terms. Maybe one day we'll discover exactly how the the brain works in its totality. Until then, it is reasonable for me to express my experiences in an immaterial fashion.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't deny that everyone should always question. I agree completely with that. But what I'm saying is that I believe that no matter how many questions we answer, there will and should always be a sense of mystery within ourselves to drive us forward.

Skippy  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

not mystery, but the love of God that overflows and spills over. In the Tanakh, a prophet (Jeremiah) complains that God's Word burns his fire like bones and that he cannot keep his mouth shut. The mystery of God is to be appreciated, but it is not our sole motivator (although it certainly can be!)

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I like the way you speak. While I agree that it shouldn't be the sole motivator, I believe it should be at the heart of all motivation.

Skippy  ·  4334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Love God and love neighbour. God is love. Jesus Christ is our foundation, and he told us to love. Mystery is important, but love is central.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well I can't argue with that.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I saved this to watch when I can devote more time to it.

Skippy  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I anticipate greater holiness and a more personal union with my God. There is unspeakable mystery there, and I need to learn to be satisfied with not knowing everything.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Do you claim a religious affiliation?

Skippy  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I grew up Protestant, in the Salvationist tradition. I'm still heavily influenced by their emphasis on Social Justice, but I find that the core of my doctrine is more easily identifiable with that of the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox. I'm currently with the Salvation Army

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4335 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hmm, that's very interesting. Any Eastern Orthodox in specific?

Skippy  ·  4334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Justification by Faith and Works, real presence in the eucharist, Hell as a purgatory (or at least redemption after death), Jesus as the Word of God (as opposed to the scriptures)... I think those are the big ones for now.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't know that I've ever met anyone who believed real presence in the eucharist. So you to it's the real deal and not a metaphor?

Skippy  ·  4334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Most of Christendom does. I don't know the specifics, but what I do know is that it's holy. Early Church writers held strongly to it, and you can find it in all of the ancient churches today-- never mind that the Eucharist as "symbolic" only arose during the 16th century. That's evidence enough for me.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's really very interesting. To clarify then, you believe when you take communion that it's actually Christ's flesh and blood? I don't mean to sound rude if I do come off that way. I'm just very interested.

Skippy  ·  4333 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I haven't taken communion in a long time. The Salvation Army doesn't observe the Sacraments. However, I believe there is Holy Mystery in the Eucharist, and if the early church believed it that's good enough for me.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4333 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm extremely fascinated by this. So you don't believe that the early church had any flawed views? I mean, if you look at the pharisees, they definitely had some misinterpretations about what the Bible meant.

Skippy  ·  4333 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The Pharisees weren't Christian; the Apostles spent time with Jesus (y'know, God). If I can't trust the early church to be right on these matters, I can trust no one. I don't know if the early church was flawed or not, but I have to trust that the Holy Spirit led them.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4333 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I commend you and am very impressed by your diligence. Keep it up and I hope you have a very happy life!