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comment by theadvancedapes
theadvancedapes  ·  4362 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Are western chimpanzees a new species of Pan?

Great point. Primatologists are quick to forget about how powerful convergent evolution can be in other orders of animal. I do try to contextualize discoveries of great ape behaviour and intelligence, but here I will concede that it looks possible that hunting with weapons may be more wide spread than currently understood.





b_b  ·  4362 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Have you seen this study? I find it very exciting, as I assume any evolutionist would also.

theadvancedapes  ·  4362 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No I hadn't read that before. It makes me think that we have a simplified understanding of neocortex evolution. Most scientific narratives posit that the neocortex is a unique development to mammals.

b_b  ·  4362 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Perhaps, but the most interesting aspect is that clearly these structures were around before complex tasks and tool making were around, if we assume that reptiles, who don't display these behaviors, haven't taken a step backwards, which is possible, of course. However, the same structures are employed by birds and mammals to complete higher order processing. That's fucking convergence. And its mind-blowing, really. Pre-WWI, the German General Staff Academy used to preach that it was up to the individual officer to come up with creative solutions to battlefield problems, arguing that the German officer was so well trained that they would all come up with the same solution anyway, the optimal one. Evolution seems to work better than the German army, and that says a lot, because they were pretty damn good.

theadvancedapes  ·  4362 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think it would be impossible to prove but it is possible that reptiles pre-Tertiary had developed some higher-level brain functioning, although if I was a betting man, I'd say it isn't likely.

There are definitely some interesting parallels between biological and cultural evolution. I was reading this today:

"Evolution can in general be seen as a learning process, during which the evolving system accumulates knowledge or information about how best to survive and thrive in its environment. This has been argued by evolutionary epistemology that all evolutionary adaptation as a form of knowledge. Its main idea is that evolution is a problem-solving process based on trial-and-error, where the successful trails are selectively retained or “memorized” – thus adding to the evolving system’s store of knowledge, whereas the errors are eliminated.

There is a strong selective pressure on all evolutionary systems in society: whenever there is a competition between individuals, groups, institutions, technologies or – most generally – systems of action, then, the more productive one will win."

In terms of brain systems, it seems as though when the neocortex is organized in certain ways, it can produce higher level brain functioning. Now I am just interested as to why certain patterns seem to be more productive than others and why.

b_b  ·  4362 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Evolution as knowledge and productive systems being the most successful ones are highly idealized and miss one key point: Luck. Luck has as much to do with success in evolution, and success in business, as being productive does. I might have the best gills of any creature ever born, but if my pond dries up...well, I wish I had lungs.