People don’t want a president with dementia. Not such a crazy notion. For every voter that doesn’t see trump as “hitler 2” (which is a very large number), the preference leans away from the guy with dementia. Of course, one can argue that he doesn’t actually have dementia, but if he doesn’t, he plays the part well enough.
Ronald Reagan has entered the chat No but you've made my point for me. Why do people not realize Trump is American Hitler? Because CNN et al is too busy calling for Hitler's rival to step down. Whether their primary motivation is fear of lawsuits, pursuit of tax breaks for the ruling class, or Axelrod's personal ideology is not terribly relevant, the result is the same. He doesn't even have dementia. He's old. Do you know anyone with dementia? I do. It's not something that comes and goes, and it's far worse than anything I've ever seen Joe do.
With he exception of FOX News, and even they’ve been more anti-trump the past year, every msm outlet has been very much reporting about the dangers of trump since 2016. The difference is, people don’t buy it. The media landscape has changed so much. People have figured out how it works. For example, he mentioned that if he isn’t elected there would be an economic bloodbath (as related to Chinese auto imports particularly) and the MSM just segmented the, “bloodbath,” part. Out of context it is scary stuff. They do this A LoT! To be clear, the right does this too. Recently Joe Biden looked like he was confused and couldn’t find a chair or that at worse he was defeating in his pants. The right had a field day online with this. People are disillusioned with the entire system. Our media has failed us. Our candidates are atrocious. Biden is not mentally fit for the job. I don’t care if it, “comes and goes.” Xi, Putin, Netanyahu and other leaders are sharp as a tack. We deserve the same. You couldn’t pay me to vote for Trump or Biden. I don’t think I will ever vote for another RNC or DNC candidate. I’m done. I will work hard to get a third party candidate elected. This cycle and beyond. All else is Stockholm syndrome. The parties are remarkably similar. Both run up the debt to unforgivable levels and rarely mention it as the threat that it is. We need to be rid of Citizens United. We need ranked choice. We need a cap on campaign spending. We need term limits in Congress. We need to dismantle the revolving door between private and public sector. For example, the head of the FDA during Covid is now on Pfizer's board. We are a mess and thinking either party will change that, or even wants to is ridiculous.
It's hard to really know what the context for the "bloodbath" comment was. I've seen the raw clip. After he says the "100% tariffs" bit, he then says "if we don't win, that'll be the least of it, it'll be a bloodbath for the whole country". Yes, the msm focuses far too much on small soundbites, but I can't really convince myself that they're in the tank for biden when there is a massive disconnect between economic indicators and crime statistics vs. perception of both. They have done a poor job of explaining the true threat of Trump, and the editorial decisions, especially with some of the headline selections and choice of stories to focus on, betray their poor grasp of history and overall naivete in this moment. And that's the best case scenario, unknowingly enabling fascism. We're not in a position to judge the mental acuity of fascist foreign regime leaders who meticulously control the information that is released about them via state media. I'd take a bumbling old man over a sharp (or whatever Trump is), aspiring fascist any day of the week. Insomuch as they're corrupt hyper-capitalists, agreed, but one demands a fascist oligarchy instead of a democratic oligarchy. I'm no lib, I'm an independent, probably socialist-dem, who feels that the most effective way to defeat the fascism element is voting dem right now. MAGA and the GOP will have to be politically vanquished completely before a new party can arise in our stupid-ass political system. Dismantling the oligarchy will require democracy. I agree with so much of what you've said, but at this moment, it is politically impossible to make a push for it. And I'm sorry, but obviously I don't think RFK is the one to be the torch-bearer, either.Xi, Putin, Netanyahu and other leaders are sharp as a tack. We deserve the same.
The parties are remarkably similar.
One of the key tenets of fascism is the forcible suppression of opposition. Right now the DNC that you’re supporting is litigating to keep Kennedy and Cornell west off of the ballot in my state. The board of electors here is all dem. They’ve agreed to not certify the signatures for Kennedy and west. They have certified the ability for the right leaning independent candidates though. Odd. Also, they’ve denied Kennedy secret service protection even though he has double digit support, credible threats to his safety etc. Furthermore they agreed to debate outside of the purview of the debate commission, colluding with CNN to set criteria for exclusion tailored to keep indoor dent candidates off of the stage. Furthermore, they ostracized any candidate that dared to primary Biden, effectively ending any opposition. Thereby stealing your right to choose your democratic candidate. Now, I suspect, they will wait until the last minute to choose their candidate (with no input from you or any other constituents). Who are the facists here? Biden may come across as a gentle grandpa but he’s a war monger. And he’s senile. A dangerous combo. I feel amazing re my support for Kennedy. At 19% nationally now. The tide will turn. And if it doesn’t, I’ll remain proud of my support for him. To vote for either Biden or Trump is to vote against your own personal liberties.It's hard to really know what the context for the "bloodbath" comment was.
it’s not hard at all. The speech is available to watch in full context. Free yourself from “clips.”I'm no lib, I'm an independent, probably socialist-dem, who feels that the most effective way to defeat the fascism element is voting dem right now
He doesn't have dementia. He has age related cognitive decline, which isn't great either. I think he's going to last in the race until the first set of high quality, post-debate opinion polls come out. I think this actually might be a best case scenario for America. The behind-the-scenes fight right now should be Witmer v. Josh Shapiro, with no other serious contenders. Both upper midwest pragmatist governors who are very popular in relatively evenly dem-gop split states. Either would be formidable, assuming it's not too late to mount a serious campaign. I think Trump is more like America's Maduro--stupid and incompetent but with an authoritarian's disposition. But I don't like gambling America's future on a guy who probably isn't fit to be president now, let alone 4 years from now, when the vanquishment of America's Maduro is there for the taking with the right candidate.
Newsom wants it too, I think, and any discussion that cuts out Kamala, well, I can think of at least one person who's gonna take issue with that. And potentially many other Black Americans. It is too late to mount a serious campaign, though. Swapping out Joe for another candidate undermines the legitimacy of future primaries, and it's already been reported that the Heritage Foundation (project 2025 authors) is looking into using a late election cycle candidate swap to bolster any potential election suits should Trump lose. And I've yet to see a convincing poll-tested analysis that shows another candidate being able to take on Trump. Yes, the "generic dem" polls better, but as soon as you slap a name on it, the favorability drops by something like 20%, is my current understanding. edit: here is polling from yesterday It isn't some sort of pro-Biden hysteria driving my concerns here, I want to assure everyone. I'm not terribly fond of him. The only thing that matters is beating Donald Trump, and I think Biden's still the best shot we have. It's unfortunate. For posterity: 1930s Germany also didn't take Hitler at his word, either, btw. They thought it was rhetorical bombast, that he was an un-serious, comical figure.
Let's do a vote swap, I vote independent in my state and you vote dem in yours, cool?
But I don’t want Biden to be president. If I did, I would just vote for him. I feel like I’m setting a very low bar but I don’t think he’ll survive 4 years, and he’s in serious cognitive decline. I don’t think he’s currently fit for office. He has the nuclear codes. The Ukraine situation is going to probably come to a head in the next few years. He can’t even admit his own decline, and his admin is unable to act rationally. Both candidates are extremely unfit. I’m not voting for either. I don’t want to be beholden to one brand of insanity over another. This has gone too far. No thanks. I’ll be quietly prepping. Happy to consider a replacement though!
Buden's cognizance is indeed a serious concern, but dawg. Dawg. There is a solid order of magnitude in the disparity of my Biden vs. Trump assessment. I'm worried we will be wishing for presidential dementia in under a year. I gotta get outta here, this place is like ground zero for detainment centers. Only San Diego might rival south Texas.
Yes that's absolutely correct. Our 25th amendment also allows for removal if a large number of persons very near to an active POTUS make the call. Welll, for now.
So is this a winning move? Vote Biden, elect the prick, hope the VP can score at least a 10 on Glasgow Coma Scale? 'Cause this sounds better than the alternative and less wasteful than independent in your climate. I'm sure mk will 'rebuke' this with some meaningless faux-profound tautology, at least he does that whenever talking to me, but you can use this as... amunition (ba dum tsh!).
That's my plan, limping this Old Dog Named Joe across the finish line. Like dragging him by the collar (Kristi Noem is taking interest). Harris would do a fine job. Like not really, there's still the uh capitalism thing, but the only way towards serious progress is through a dem victory. Living to vote another day. Sucks, of course. Before Palestine, Joe was the most unmistakably progressive president since FDR. And now it sucks to vote for him. A little. Quite a bit, really. Oh and my vote doesn't matter because of where I live. Trying to sneak out of here before the electric grid collapses, an especially noteworthy imminent collapse among a very promising field of other imminent collapses. I feel bad because I know how good Poland might look if, say, a POTUS gave you half of Ukraine and constantly makes it clear that he doesn't give a shit about America, much less Europe. But yeah man, we're cooked. We are kooky cooked cookadiddle-do, the ash is turning gray. It's ok, I'm making really good art shots fired
Nah, throwing your vote into the pile matters wherever you are. We recently had a Sołtys (like county-level official for rural areas) election where the difference between candidates was 6 votes (out of 250-someting voters). Sure, it's not the same league, our Sołtys is 47 and kicks ass as a public servant, but may POTUS match her importance and prestige one day. Your vote is no less important than mouthbreather's next in line. LOL, come on, that's basic even by my understanding of geopolitics. Ukraine is neither his/America's to give nor ours to take. Also, combining it with Poland would cause a civil war faster than most of you can spell 'Volhynia'.I know how good Poland might look if, say, a POTUS gave you half of Ukraine
Dude you need to tell your friends that an American tried to singularize a singular word (soltys).
Nah, I told you already: we're pretty understanding of this. Hell, we have plurals of collective nouns, like 'the police' (nominative singular: policja, plural: policje), so go and wrap your head around that. It's like Latin, but much weirder and less regular. You're fine. And good one, but what would we do with whole three lie-bear-ians?
The well-boy is key to lie-bear-yun stability. We're all about the 1/3 nuclear family and superbreeders.
Send the Solty over, if you can, thanks. I have once again ruined communication with a proverbial "you". I am talking about Trump giving Putin Ukraine. Even some of it. Putin lives and breathes mid-20th century Soviet expansionist propaganda. If he thinks the US is noncommittal enough with NATO, I think you have Moldova as a warning case, and then maybe latvia and estonia but god knows belarus is a done deal.
That poll actually shows the opposite of what the poster purports it to show. Trump’s highest average is against Biden, and though each of the other candidates is weaker in nominal terms than Biden, the “don’t know” is significantly wider. As the election approaches, those don’t knows will break dem if they’re given a decent candidate, trump’s approval ratings such as they are.
OTOH, Trump has not yet affixed the right-wing media upon a different target. It's all terribly unknowable. But I will tell you what I do know. We don't deserve this. Nobody deserves this. And I know that if Trump wins, I will need to seek a judge to rule on whether we can play guitars in The Camps or not.
Yes, I do know something about dementia and he actually looks like he’s in an early stages. Could be vascular. But even if it’s not “dementia” his cognitive decline is bad, very very bad for someone past the average life expectancy running for president. Trump isn’t an excuse for that. CNN didn’t cause everyone to see it and say omg beyond hosting the debate that the Biden campaign wanted.
Again, just as with Feinstein, the Biden campaign and entourage is unfortunately in large part now a protectionist racket. Careerists preserving their jobs. Biden shouldn't have ran again. The "no live fact-checking" stipulation was agreed to by the Biden campaign. So yeah, they're obviously idiots. Whoever prepped him also erred terribly, and tried to prioritize memorizing stats and facts way down in the weeds. That's obviously not how to best Trump in this format of exchange. The stupidest timeline.
You say that Biden could be mentally impacted by his age. Which is fair after the poor debate. But the man is known for his lack of debate prowess. Politically it look like he is the best president US had in years. He already did more good things for the US people and on the international front, than Obama (a great debater ) did. We can argue that he is not the creative mind behind all those good things (and I rather see you guys have Cortez or Bernie as president), but they happened either way.
That is a great point I also made back in 2020; although The President is the figurehead of any presidential administration, it's arguably just as or more important who he surrounds himself with, and those people aren't going to be terribly different for a Bernie or Biden or Harris presidency. Sadly, most Americans are almost completely unaware of anything Biden has accomplished. His legacy so far, in the eyes of most American citizens, boils down to one word - inflation. They are completely unaware that inflation was a global phenomenon resulting from the pandemic emergency spending, and even less aware that the U.S. has done a better job than any other western democracy in tamping down inflation. And we never, NEVER, discuss even the possibility of immigration blunting inflation domestically. Instead, republicans are trying to take credit for Biden's legislation. My frustration expressed in these threads doesn't stem from some religious reverence to Biden. I'm frustrated because it's clear we live in a domestic media environment obscenely favorable towards Trump. While there are obviously valid, grassroots concerns about Biden's mental acuity, the media is now entering its 11th day of attempting to strong-arm Biden out of the race. It's STILL the number one story of Washington Post and New York Times. Meanwhile, new court documents reconfirming Trump's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein have been released recently, and not a single major outlet has run a story about it. I didn't expect the oligarchy-controlled media's bid for fascism to be this obvious.
There is one and only one existential threat to America and it isn’t Donald Trump. It’s nuclear war. Full stop. I can’t fathom anyone being ok with a senile person being the ultimate cog in the nuclear chain of command. Horse race politics, for me, ends at war and nuclear war especially. Under no circumstances will I vote for a would-be nursing home patient to hold the nuclear codes. That has nothing to do with electability whatsoever. I’m 99% sure I’m not the only person who feels that way. He’s embarrassing himself and the country at this point. That Trump is a piece of garbage who gets darling treatment in the press is a totally separate issue and even if it were corrected overnight, not one that’s going to move the needle on Biden’s feebleness.
You have placed yourself inside of some information environment wherein Donald Nuke The Hurricanes Trump is the preferable candidate, y'know, from a nuclear weapons perspective, and no amount of long-winded argumentation from some pseudonymous internet poster is gonna change that.
No. You misunderstand my argument completely and probably willfully. I’m not arguing for Trump; I’m arguing against Biden. Not sure why I’m even replying, since I assume you’re just trolling me. The sooner Biden steps aside, the better. It’s inevitable at this point, so I can’t imagine what he’s waiting for. The fact that he can’t read the tea leaves makes my argument stronger, not weaker.
Nobody thinks you're arguing for Trump, they think you hate both but are arguing that Biden is more likely to use nukes than Trump. In my opinion this is a baffling take, and I too question what information you have that lead here.
Loooooooool. I’m talking about a gaping hole at the top of the military, for which nuclear war is the direst problem. Constitutionally, the president is the commander in chief. An absent cic is a constitutional crisis in and of itself. I think this place is letting its tds make it dumber by the minute.
I'm just trying to imagine Do you think the secret service jogwalks over to Biden and says And Biden says Like what do you think this process looks like, he freezes up and centcom looks around the console "oh well, there goes 10 metros, and he called Bill 'Greg', put it in the paper that he called Bill 'Greg'"? How involved do you think Joe Biden is with nuclear strategery? I think it's less than the guy floating a radioactive cyclone Sir it's 75 three megaton Russian yields about 8 degrees off the north pole right now, what do we do, sir Oh. Oh. I, I forgot my nuke playbook here on the campaign trail, oh no! I guess that's it then
You should avail yourself of some Cold War history. We came close to nuclear war in the 60s, as most people know, but also in the 80s. But for the calm thinking of leaders in the US and USSR, things could have differently. The fact that you prefer to be flip about the president’s primary job, CIC, is troubling to me.
Two things can be true at the same time. Biden can be cognitively impaired and Trump can be abysmal. The left still has time to put up a better candidate. My guess is that it will be Kamala and Whitmer. Kamala still has access to the money they’ve raised and Whitmer brings Michigan and strengthens them on their strongest issue: women’s reproductive rights. I was called crazy by family and friends for arguing strongly that the Dems needed to hold a robust primary. “You can’t primary a sitting President. He’s not too old…” was their reply. If Dean Phillips or RFKJ were the nominees Trump would be toast. Biden/Harris have four years of baggage and they can claim that inflation is getting better and they’re creating jobs etc, but people don’t feel that. People feel like inflation is out of control, interest rates are bonkers and that they’re underemployed. Meanwhile, they see billions of tax payer money flying out the door to support foreign wars/countries while our border remains porous, our country is addicted, depressed and diseased. The Dems used to be the anti-corporate corruption party, anti Wall Street, anti war, first amendment absolutists party. All that has gone away. The two party system is obsolete. Shades of grey. Biden has never met a war he didn’t like. I am afraid he will bring us to ww3. The question should be, Can Biden be our president in 3 years time? I think we all know he will be mush by then. For what it’s worth, I think trump is worse. But at least with Trump, crypto has a home in the United States. Biden/Warren’s anti crypto crusade is truly bonkers. Protecting nobody but traditional finance/banks. The Dems have lost their way and their leader is beyond too old. Let’s see what happens. This is the first time in my life I’m rooting for the Dems to lose. Following the Kennedy campaign and how the DNC is keeping him off of ballots, colluding with CNN to keep him out of debates, denying him secret service protection (latest polls have him at 19% nationally) has been eye opening. Fuck the DNC! They denied us a primary and have made their bed. Now they must lie in it. I think this place is letting its tds make it dumber by the minute.
it’s crazy. Being critical of Biden, or questioning his cognitive abilities does not mean you prefer, or tacitly condone Trump.
Does the recently leaked conversation between RFK jr and Trump change your view at all?
Honestly feel the same way. Really shows how much kleinbl00 was doing all the hard work of finding interesting things to talk about. I hope things pick back up after the election but I'm ducking out again
Who was this? Hard to know. But no matter, all the best to you. This place is only as interesting as the people here. If/when you come back, bring some interesting pals. The infrastructure is here. It has the potential to be a cool place. Wishing you well!! Godspeed!
We are, but I'd prefer to keep it a classical climate cookout, if you will. A backyards bar-b-que, as opposed to swapping the charcoal pellets for unstable Uranium isotopes.