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comment by uhsguy
uhsguy  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y'all. Stop it.

You aren’t pig either maybe you should stop taking antibiotics. Just saying… This is misguided, folks are taking this stuff because the fda and cdc have failed to be honest with the public and lost credibility. This is the same FDA that approved an alzheimer drug that does nothing except cost a ton. Same cdc that won’t admit covid is an Aerosol.

I mean there is a reason Americans are looking abroad for medical advice, other public Heath agencies are seen as more legitimate.





kleinbl00  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    This is misguided, folks are taking this stuff because the fda and cdc have failed to be honest with the public and lost credibility.

Oh come now. The sources telling them to take invermectin have less credibility than Trump telling them to drink bleach. You act like somehow, the FDA and CDC had enough credibility with this crowd if only they hadn't squandered it when the fact of the matter is, they were at "teach the controversy" forty goddamn years ago.

    I mean there is a reason Americans are looking abroad for medical advice, other public Heath agencies are seen as more legitimate.

Nobody is looking at "other health agencies" they're looking at cranks on Youtube and going "same-same."

You're both-sidesing every single public health authority and "random shit I saw on Facebook that my qanon-obsessed cousin shared."

mk  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I will say that the CDC really stepped in it with the "you don't need masks" message in the beginning. The message should have been, "Hey, we are pulling masks from the shelves for healthcare workers. Be careful out there until they are available. Here's how to make something at home that is better than nothing."

The race to create a natural origin narrative was idiotic as well.

People are stupid, beyond stupid, but I don't blame them for not trusting the CDC or the FDA. The FDA is a bad joke for more reasons than one can count. If they cared about health, they might actually address the fact that we subsidize colored sugar garbage instead of food, or let the opioid epidemic reach such staggering proportions.

The CDC and FDA are clearly not outcomes based organizations.

b_b  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think the FDA is doing pretty well all things considered. The Aduhelm debacle was a problem of messaging, but I actually think it's pretty forward thinking given the disease (AD) that they're up against.

The CDC on the other hand has been nothing but a catastrophe the whole time. I get that they've had some trouble navigating the Trump problem, but they have been slow to react to almost all new data. Some data, such as the evidence that it's really hard to get Covid outside, has been simply ignored. The 6 ft rule, which is complete nonsense, is another example where they have just ignored and derided actual evidence. You're seeing it again with their messaging on infection rates and infectiousness of vaccinated people. They pick a public stance based on some cherry picked or early evidence and that's what they go with. It's a nightmare. Not sure when the last time we've seen a government agency prepare for decades for an assured catastrophe fail so spectacularly.

kleinbl00  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Not sure when the last time we've seen a government agency prepare for decades for an assured catastrophe fail so spectacularly.

"Heck of a job, Brownie" - era FEMA.

Neither the CDC nor the FDA nor the WHO should be political entities. Yet they are. And politics has definitely overshadowed science on this one.

Epsilon Theory called it 18 months ago.

b_b  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

In Brownie's defense, he did have a lot of other things going on in his life that he cared more about, like horse training or whatever. Can't expect him to do everything.

kleinbl00  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This is an important point buried in snark: when Trump came in, the careerists left. The government hollowed out like Venezuela. But when Trump left, the sycophants largely left with him - I mean, what's the point of having the title if you have to do the work? - which has left pretty much everything open for a new breed of careerists.

I think the pandemic-response-unit-in-exile probably would have done things differently. And I think the fact that they've been conducting diplomacy without an embassy, essentially, put a real kink in the chain of command. The fact that the Trumpistas gave less of a shit about the CDC than pretty much anything else means that a lot of them lingered and tried to do what they needed to do in a hostile situation... but the actual pandemic brain trust had been long since fired and they were free to snark at the people running the show.

I'm hopeful the CDC will get their shit together moving forward. Things should be less tangled than before. But there's still a hell of a tangle to un-knot and the whole "we can't have a World Health Organization if we lock China out" combined with "but obviously China needs to be locked out because they damn near ended the world through carelessness" dichotomy isn't going to resolve smoothly.

uhsguy  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

“ The CDC and FDA are clearly not outcomes based organizations.”

Agree they are political organizations. Same caliber of folks that ran the Afghanistan war. Instead of managing the covid outbreak they are more concerned about providing cover for the politicians in charge. Think trump hurricane prediction map.

am_Unition  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No one could convince me that the FDA and CDC are functioning anywhere near optimally, and maybe their biggest failure is a lack of effective messaging. They should very clearly (and repeatedly) discuss the common theme of needing to adjust their directives in response to the US's changing covid environment. Their directions keep changing because so does the virus, and vaccine effectiveness, too, in fairly complex and unpredictable ways. Attempts at messaging have been made, but nah. Nah. Not sure who to blame.

Pretty weird that some of the establishment still chooses to die on the hill of "definitely 100% NOT from The Wuhan Laboratory for Coronaviruses", seemingly in large part simply because Trump suggested it. The more important plot line is that Trump had the intel warning of grave danger, but played covid as a threat he should try to minimize, for political gain, yet he also weaponized covid against China to project a strongman image and deflect blame. I wished his voting base wouldn't let him have it both ways. The uptick in hate crimes against Asian Americans since his rhetoric should also hover over him. Luckily, Biden's first big foreign policy move went off without a hitch!! #1 BEST PULLOUT SINCE 'NAM

'K sorry. CDC and FDA have probably interfaced less, of lately, with international organizations like the WHO (see: Trump hated WHO), but most foreign Western government health policy recommendations for covid-19 have a lot in common. The general understanding of covid-19 is even less in dispute. What drives any differing policies right now, the top three things: case numbers, vaccine availability, and vaccine uptake.

The US needs more vaccine uptake. It's available. Pretty much anyone else around the world without it wants it. Demonstrably, case numbers are bad in areas with low vaccine uptake right now. The vaccines also make you at least 90% on average less likely to die if you are exposed, currently. I've taken it, I'm fine. Wellllllll, no, but I was always like this.

Abroad is my only sibling. They're on a 9 pm to 5 am curfew, mask mandates, even outdoor exercise limitations now. They've been on three separate month-ish sets of something like this, because the gov't figured that was their best strategy. The most recent one comes as the vaccine is finally becoming available. They're gonna reach higher vaccination rates (total % vaxx'd) than us (US) within a few weeks, looks like. Drives home how conditions are evolving in different phases and social climates of this virus everywhere in the world right now.

I don't think most anti-vaxx folks are saying "straight to the googles for an hour to check UK's Ministry of Health against Germany's _________ to learn about foreign state health recommendations". I think anti-vaxx America is on Insta, Fbook, Tweeters, etc. where they choose their preferred narratives, subconsciously or not, notably with the gratuitous help of big tech's algorithms. I don't think it's going well.

So: IN A WORLD, where covid was used by state actors to seed social division on the internet, with both of us each the victim but also both to blame, in a complex web of meme referencings and "harmless" pranks, directed by (and starring!) Hubskiteer, the lovable Hubski K9 and Three Quarters Mascot™ (don't re-read it, it's not a sentence). That's four people roles played by two people, primarily featuring a dog, set in the Golden Retriever Potterverse, and it's our movie plot. See you guys there.