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comment by kleinbl00

    With nearly all the ballots counted, the 41-year-old Volodymyr Zelenskiy took 73% of the vote, trouncing incumbent President Petro Poroshenko, who received less than 25%. Zelenskiy's victory is widely seen as a rebuke of the status quo, a response to perceived corruption within the political establishment, and a reflection of malaise over the lackluster economy and ongoing conflict with Russia in eastern Ukraine.

Do you remember the last time Ukraine had a more thriving democracy than our own?





am_Unition  ·  1825 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Barely. I remember seeing the guy's face change overnight, was like "oh, ex-Soviet shit", and was glad my mom's trip to Ukraine in 2000-ish was in a period of relative stability. Wasn't much into geopolitik back 15 years ago.

What scares me is that there will be (or arguably, is) an internet version of these incredibly improper campaign tactics, especially foreign election interference, for 2020 POTUS elections. We're fucked, and the GOP in at least two of three branches seem intent on preventing at least some election security measures, and actively shits on the factually-established results of the massive IC probes into the 2016 debacle.

How do you feel about a decentralized blockchain voting ledger system, but developed at the federal level, with massive funding/staffing? Maybe it doesn't have to run all year, just a month, over the course of which is the voting window. Any federal effort will need to be essentially shoved down the states' throats, with some assurances, like oversight. Leaving the states to their wide array of voting systems enables both obfuscation and human error. There has to be some way to do this well (better than the current situation) before quantum cryptography provides the ultimate security, which is probably at least 30 years away from being implemented in any large infrastructure.

We obviously need more campaign finance laws, if two ex-felons (Parnas, Fruman) are allowed to pour literally hundreds of millions in slush funds without demonstrating that they own any profitable businesses. This isn't really up for debate. We also need to keep foreign money out of social media advertising, and we should at least begin discussing what to do about domestic social media propaganda. edit: I guess there are some "conversations" at a national level, they're just almost always really, really stupid

While I'm interrogating you, do you think a 2020 Trump win would be the end of America/democracy, or just the GOP?

kleinbl00  ·  1825 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Here's my larger point - you can get the fix in if things are close:

    The race between Kennedy and Nixon had been close all fall. The candidates were tied in a late August Gallup poll, and Kennedy took a three-point lead after his historic TV debate performances. But Nixon gained momentum heading into Election Day, and he cut Kennedy’s lead to one percentage point in a poll taken four days before the election.

    Kennedy defeated Nixon when votes were finally counted in the Electoral College, by a margin of 303 to 219. But in the popular vote, Kennedy won by just 112,000 votes out of 68 million cast, or a margin on 0.2 percent.

    So arguments persist to this day about vote-counting in two states, specifically Illinois (where Kennedy won by 9,000 votes) and Texas (where Kennedy won by 46,000 votes). If Nixon had won those two states, he would have defeated Kennedy by two votes in the Electoral College.

    That fact wasn’t lost on Nixon’s supporters, who urged the candidate to contest the results. At the time, Kennedy was also leading in the critical state of California, which was Nixon’s home state. But a count of absentee ballots gave Nixon the state several weeks later, after he conceded it to Kennedy.

    In Illinois, there were rampant rumors that Chicago’s Mayor Richard Daley used his political machine to stuff the ballot box in Cook County. Democrats charged the GOP with similar tactics in southern Illinois. Down in Texas, there were similar claims about the influence of Kennedy’s running mate, Lyndon B. Johnson, over that state’s election.

    On Wednesday afternoon, November 9, 1960, Nixon officially conceded the election to Kennedy. He told his friend, journalist Earl Mazo, that “our country cannot afford the agony of a constitutional crisis.” (Mazo had written a series of articles about voter fraud after the 1960 election, which he stopped at Nixon’s request.)

When you've got things close, you can tip the scales a little. When you don't know what's going on, you can tip the scales a little. None of the prognosticating class predicted Trump - they all tracked it badly. We have all sorts of bald-faced evidence of the Russians influencing the election - I mean, they raided the DNC and the RNC ran their shit in their TV commercials. But even then, the Russians didn't expect to win or they wouldn't have been so sloppy. They just expected to fuck shit up a little.

But that's if things are close. Zelensky won with 73% of the vote. Somebody described the Chinese shock at the Hong Kong elections yesterday being the equivalent of "Dewey Defeats Truman" if Truman won 90% of the votes. Guaranteed they had some sort of fix on but it wasn't enough.

As far as voting integrity, I don't think you need to overthink it. Up here we vote entirely by mail. it's stunningly drama-free - even when there's shit-tons of drama. I can look myself up in the voter record and see every ballot I've submitted since 2015 (eleven elections, by the way). So while I can be SUPER PISSED at how stupid some people can be, I have no doubts that their stupidity is legitimately represented. And I say this as someone who has worked on projects that I KNOW were passed by fraudulent ballot measures.

    While I'm interrogating you, do you think a 2020 Trump win would be the end of America/democracy, or just the GOP?

I think the world is largely unchanged for the overwhelming majority of native-born Americans and will continue to be that way. I think that the people fighting for change are fighting for change they can use and the people fighting for border walls and locking up children and all the rest of it are fighting for their preferences. I think the Trump presidency has made an extremely narrow section of America happy, a broader section deeply outraged and a big yellow pac-man of America vaguely pleased or vaguely dissatisfied.

According to Pew, a "prolific political tweeter" is someone who expresses ten political opinions on Twitter in a year.

And I mean, what does another four years of Trump look like? look at this shit. We're living in the era where a Scaramucci is a unit of measure. I'll bet there are AirBnBs in DC that have had lower turnover than the White House. What, exactly, are they going to do? Who is going to do it? We've seen clearly that Stephen Miller's idea of policy is "write angry emails to Breitbart" and "come up with Dr. Evil policies and let the courts squash them." The lasting damage the Trump white house has done has been in staffing, continuity and trust. Take away the judges the Federalist Society has slammed through and the Trump administration hasn't actively done anything substantive other than approve Paul Ryan's tax cuts.

Don't get me wrong - it's a dumpster fire. It's a catastrophe. But their biggest changes have been through omission, not through action.

goobster  ·  1825 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I've always held out hope for Zelenskiy to be what Tymoshenko promised for the country, but she got railroaded and set up as the fall guy for a standard Russian op in Ukraine.

But ... Zelenskiy was a comedian before running for office.

Trump was a TV star with a checkered real estate past.

I'm afraid these two are both going to just be the vapid approval-seekers that most on-air personalities are, and both will quickly live up to the idiom of power corrupting absolutely... sigh