- My student’s name, fittingly, was Tom. He was a believer at a secular liberal-arts school, and he was sick of being condescended to either by a campus lousy with self-congratulatory progressives or by teachers (like me, he assumed) who treated religious faith as an inert museum piece. “Wait,” I told him. “Today we talked historical context, and next time we’ll illuminate religious practice.”
Lee C. Bollinger: Free speech on campus is doing just fine, thank you
Tom was a rare exception. As a teacher, I find remarkable resistance to bringing religious ideas and experiences into class discussions. When I ask what a philosopher had in mind in writing about salvation, or the immortality of the soul, my normally talkative undergraduates suddenly stare down at their notes. If I ask them a factual theological question about the Protestant Reformation, they are ready with answers: predestination; “faith, not works”; and so on. But if I go on to ask students how one knows in one’s heart that one is saved, they turn back to their laptops. They look anywhere but at me—for fear that I might ask them about feeling the love of God or about having a heart filled with faith. In my cultural-history classes, we talk about sexuality and identity, violence and revolution, art and obscenity, and the students are generally eager to weigh in. But when I bring up the topic of religious feeling or practice, an awkward silence always ensues.
I found that religious minded students were more than ready to interject what the bible says about any given topic regardless of weather it added to or was appropriate in the context of the discussion (philosophy class was the most onerous class that the god bothers couldn't help but sideline). In economics class it was the gold standard fools cramming in the latest exciting ideas from Ron Paul any time they thought they could shoehorn it in. I got real tired of these people trying to sideline class time with their personal preoccupations. I even got rude about it at points, I suppose I made an unsafe space for the discussion of religion or gold. "We are studying ancient Greek philosophy, not Jesus, your leaping 400 years ahead." Teachers were afraid to say anything, you could see their eyes glaze over at the 40th bible quotation of the semester but they were rarely going to do anything but try and gently steer things back on track.
Hmm. Reading your comment, I kind of get why my experience was probably pretty different. Christianity was rarely the focus of the conversation and I doubt if it started to occur, anyone would tolerate any proselytizing. I went to a community college, so even "enrichment" classes were full of people with little time and little money to feel like their attention was being wasted. I personally used to absolute detest people who derailed classes and the people who did it were often repeat offenders. Any time their hands would shoot up there really would be a collective groan from other students. I hated most people who'd waste class time to squabble with the teachers over assignments and grades, as if office hours didn't exist or something. That said, when religion was discussed, it was brought up as part of the lesson by the teacher. A real good example is, in my Asian History class, besides a whole week being devoted just to focusing on religion, the subject was brought up often from everything from philosophy, to governance and politics, to economics, trade, and population shifts. It was some darn fascinating stuff. Had I had your experience, I'd have hated it too.
Oh yea, you know exactly who I'm talking about. I really liked community college, Most everyone was vary focused on getting their shit done but I found that there were just as many people looking to derail shit in community as there was at university.I personally used to absolute detest people who derailed classes and the people who did it were often repeat offenders. Any time their hands would shoot up there really would be a collective groan from other students. I hated most people who'd waste class time to squabble with the teachers over assignments and grades, as if office hours didn't exist or something.
I love how the president of Wesleyan starts an article about not discussing religion with a religious student pillorying him for discussing Thomas Aquinas the wrong way. Fuckin'A. If you're discussing morality, or psychology, or economics, or reason, or anything other than faith, you can appeal to logic. You can present evidence. The minute you start talking about faith, you're at "I believe Jesus wants me to protest the LGBTQ march and there's fuckall you can do about it, heathen." In an environment where you can get in trouble for saying "Navajo" instead of "dine" there is zero upside in a discussion of faith. NONE. And look. I grew up surrounded by kids who weren't allowed to play with me because I was "going to hell." I was persecuted by the police because the chief got a lesbian wedding invitation that was intended for my mom. It's fucking HILARIOUS that the religious are all up in arms about their freedoms when every third poster continues to be about Campus Crusade for Christ and where we all sat helpless while an out-of-towner stood in the middle of the campus square with a megaphone shouting fire and brimstone and eternal condemnation at the muslims because they worshipped a "child rapist." Religion is doing just fine ON campus, thanksverymuch. IN class? Fuck off with that shit. My daughter came home with crucifix cupcakes from a camp that swore up down left and right that while it was religious in nature, it had "secular" programs. I give no fucks how "absorbed" you are in your "robust traditions" - your REQUIREMENT, in this here First Amendment United States, is to accept that not everyone is absorbed in the same traditions as you and the minute you insist that my faith (or lack thereof) takes a back seat to your "absorbence" we're going to have a constitutional challenge.But if I go on to ask students how one knows in one’s heart that one is saved, they turn back to their laptops.
Weird. This article is almost the exact opposite of my college experience. Of course religion was discussed unavoidably in my religious history classes, but it also came up on the regular in classes that weren't that tightly related to the subject and a lot of people felt free to discuss various concepts. Kids and teachers both were enthusiasti, insightful, and respectful. I think the only class where the subject didn't come up were math and computer related classes. But then, there's not a lot of room for is to show up there, huh?
No no no no no! Stop! Just because our culture has been sick of atheist edginess for the last 10 years now does NOT mean this. exact. moment. we need to be opening the floor to these people. They deserve none of that. They deserve to be condemned and defunded in every way humanly possible. Certainly kicked out of clubs week. This is what "regression" is. It explains the popularity of bible study with that guy who's name I refuse to mention bcuz he's afraid of death. Everyone is so collectively depressed and borderline suicidal that we're turning to god. I mean why the fuck not?! And look, I'm depressed too okay? But saying that sentence in the way you did is nothing but propaganda. Literally proselytizing. You are not a nonbeliever. You are certainly not a secular humanist. What you are, is a Jesus freak. Religion gives universities money. No wonder kids don't give a shit. At least the ones that are still semi-intelligent because teenagers? They're all fucking different. So fuck Tom. I hate his guts. MGMT is the only good thing that came out of that university and that band is the definition of Hail Satan. One of my art friend's girlfriends was pulled out of high school and locked in a room by these nut-jobs. No phone, no internet. Then she was married off at 18 or 19 to a family friend. Who knows if she graduated. But as long as your heart is open right? I give up. It feels good to finally give up. Hope they say is a dangerous thing. It can kill a man. And I didn't say it yet on this website. I never thought I had to bring it up. But here it is kids. There is no Santa Claus, and there is no god. They—and I—should refuse to hide behind narrow versions of critical thinking that keep them from engaging with people whose lives are energized by compassion and forgiveness.
But if I go on to ask students how one knows in one’s heart that one is saved