http://blog.oplopanax.ca/2010/10/how-to-kill-yourself-snowshoeing/
http://blog.oplopanax.ca/2010/11/how-to-not-kill-yourself-snowshoeing/
Has anyone here gone snowshoeing before? @WanderinEng@, maybe?
Yes! Summit of Gothics Mountain: I have, so far, not killed myself snowshoeing. Gothics was probably my closest when I fell in some deep snow on the summit. I also slid into a tree on Big Slide (I was sliding intentionally but got out of control). Reading these articles a bit, I'm also reminded of a short but steep section going up Wright/Algonquin. I fell down it two times while descending on snowshoes. It was exactly this: The third time, I went down it backwards and did not fall. I had someone tell me "MSRs are almost like big crampons!" No, they are not. I have crampons. I've crawled up icy slabs in both my MSRs and my crampons. One is one slip away from sliding back down while the other feels as stable as walking on a dry sidewalk. Watching the weather is important. If there's a bunch of fresh snow, I'll leave my crampons behind to save weight. But if it hasn't snowed in a few days, and especially if it's been slightly warm on well traveled trails, I'll take snowshoes, Hillsound Trail Crampons (I've used Kahtoola Microspikes and prefer the Hillsounds), and strap crampons. I figure if the extra weight is the difference between making my summit and not, I shouldn't have been there in the first place. After my uncontrolled slide on Big Slide, I also bought an ice axe. I'm no pro with the ice axe, but I can definitely slow and stop myself. It's nothing like what one sees in a movie, but it keeps me safer. It also looks bad ass strapped to my backpack. The other thing is springs can turn to ice. What's a trickle of water running down the trail in the summer is a sheet of ice that snow doesn't stick to in the winter. On good snowy terrain, I'm wearing snowshoes and using trekking poles. On icy mostly flat terrain, the snowshoes are replaced with the Hillsounds. On something steep and icy, I'll use the crampons with the poles on the way up and one pole and the ice axe on the way down. The only problem is stopping to swap them around. I use a Deuter backpack designed for snowboards to carry my snowshoes. I think I've done Giant, Sawteeth, Gothics, Armstrong, Upper Wolf Jaw, Saddleback, Marcy, Algonquin, Wright, Street, Nye, Table Top and Phelps in the High Peaks in snowshoes. Some of those were officially outside winter but still gobs of snow.In fact, for some snowshoes that have teeth that are slightly angled, the downhill orientation interferes with getting a grip and can cause the snowshoe to lose traction.
Snowshoes are designed for travel on flat terrain, do not let the cleats and teeth present on almost all modern snowshoes fool you.
Thanks WanderingEng for the story and for the snowshoeing tips. I always have my snowshoes along on winter camp outings but so far have never trodden over about two miles at a time on them. I just bring them in case the sky decides to dump a huge load of snow while I am afield.
You've done winter overnights? All my winter hiking has been day hiking only, but I want to get into winter camping this year. I bought a liquid fuel stove and am looking for the right sale for a winter sleeping bag. I figure I'll need a larger pack, too. My snowshoe experience is if you're reasonably comfortable hiking, adding snowshoes to the mix isn't a lot more challenging. It can be much slower depending on how much snow is there, but there aren't a lot of new skills to learn.
Yeah probably if there's enough snow to warrant snowshoes then hiking without them would be even slower. And if the snow is like knee high or more the snowshoes could save you from life-threatening exhaustion, right?
Glissading? If yes, glissading is one of those things I really don't have much intention of doing. Read too many instances of where that goes really wrong, really quick, and after hiking over a section of trail where there was 100% the dead body of a guy who died glissading under snow melt earlier this year, nope nope nope. Yep! As long as you have some semblance of balance, that makes a ton of sense! Figured you might be one of a handful of people here with experience in this kind of weather and terrain. Ice axes are super badass, and make an amazing crutch if you're getting tired while crossing a snowfield! You're about the first person I've seen recommend trail crampons over the microspikes, why do you prefer them?I have, so far, not killed myself snowshoeing. Gothics was probably my closest when I fell in some deep snow on the summit. I also slid into a tree on Big Slide (I was sliding intentionally but got out of control).
The third time, I went down it backwards and did not fall.
I suspect Adirondack glissading barely qualifies. I've seen videos like this one from Mt. Adams, and it's nothing like what I'm doing. I'm sliding maybe 20 feet, 100 feet tops. I feel it's safer as I can't fall; I'm deliberately on the ground to start with. I do give some thought to what's at the bottom. Usually the slide stops because the trail levels out, stopping with no effort. I did have a scare on one of those. I would put a foot down right at the end and use my momentum to stand back up, and I had a weird twinge in my knee. I'm more careful now. I mostly use my poles as crutches to rest on. Not everyone uses them, but I like them both summer and winter. My axe is on the shorter end to make it easier to fit in my luggage, and for my use the short size works well. It might be too short for more serious mountaineering. The Hillsound trail crampons have a plate on both the front and the heel. The Kahtoola microspikes are primarily tied by chain links. I think the solid piece feels more stable. The major drawback with both is the lack of toe and heel spikes. They're great on sort of hilly terrain, but when it gets steep they struggle. Lots of people use them exclusively and don't carry full crampons, but I feel it's a safety risk for me. Without heel and toe spikes, natural stepping causes loss of traction. One has to step with their foot flat to the terrain. I think it risks injury but again, many do it. "Hike your own hike," as they say. I'm not judging them, and I hope they aren't judging me for possibly seeming over equipped. One thing I haven't mentioned: avalanches are rare in the Adirondacks. I have no experience safely traversing places with an avalanche risk. It's one of the points that drew me to New York rather than the Rockies or Cascades.
Wouldn't call it "going" snowshoeing but yes I have used snowshoes during winter camping. My snowshoes are the opposite of traditional they are plastic membranes riveted to aluminum tubes. Chosen at REI for practicality and low cost not for looks. I do have sentimental attachment to old fashioned tools & equipment but at the time I needed a quick and cheap solution. #wintercamping. I like winter camping due to no biting flies and no bears stealing your food and no crowds of people (except during gun deer season which is a short time).
What kind of tent do you use for four season camping during the winter? The biggest issue in many circumstances in the PNW during winter is wind. Can be brutal at night. Not sure if you're more out my way, or in the Midwest.
Thanks ButterflyEffect for posting this snowshoe thing. i am midwest, from Chicago. I can drive to Wisconsin's Black River State Forest in under about five hours under optimal conditions. (very close to interstate both ends). For year round camping I have three types of tent. One is an ancient canvas center pop up umbrella pole tent. it is roomy but no smoke hole at the top. and it weighs a ton when dry and two tons when damp. its waterproofing is degraded thru wear and tear, also many rips and holes. The windiest place I used it was on a point of land into a little lake in National Forest in north west central (Taylor County) Wisconsin. That was in early spring the ground was yet too frozen to anchor the tent nicely; i used logs and misc the weights to hold it down but that wind had other ideas. Because of the wind I kept my fire very small which was tedious due to frequent tending. It was Spring per the calendar but still winter per conditions. I relied mostly upon clothing and bedding to maintain my body temperature. This was in a small but official campground that even featured an outhouse (sheltered pit latrine). It was so cold I wrapped a wool scarf around the toilet seat. also so cold a local farmer drove his pickup truck far onto the little lake with impunity to retrieve and bring home his ice fishing house. Sharing the campground there was a Jewish family ( I could tell by the attire and hair styling of the men) They saw me sawing and splitting firewood a few times. When they broke camp they come over and dropped a couple big armloads of nice split firewood by my tent. The Ice Age Trail it passes very close to that little campground. The last time I used that heavy canvas tent was at Pigeon Creek Campground in Black River State Forest. It was Very Cold at that time and place. Like minus 28 degrees F at times, I hated that because I could not even take a short hike without my coffee freezing up. For heating the tent I had a home made stove. To prevent carbon monoxide buildup I used a small pipe to bring outside air into the bottom of the stove. I kept the stove just inside the tent door. I had a flexible aluminum clothes dryer vent from the top of the stove to the outside. One thing my homemade stove lacked was a damper, so I had in effect created a blast furnace which disintegrated a four inch thick log within seconds, and also got the exhaust vent so hot it started the tent on fire even tho it was not actually touching the canvas. Lucky for me the tent remained usable but I have retired it due to its great weight since I have switched from close to the car camping to walk far from the car camping. Another funny thing happened with that home made stove - I did not know that Coleman fuel was volatile like naphtha or gasoline, no, I thought it was on the order of kerosene, so I poured a little into the stove and dropped in a match - BOOM - a ball of fire blew off the stove lid (which hit me in the face) then the fire jumped out of the stove singeing my eye lashes and eye brows. That and the tent fire convinced to give up on home made stoves for a while. Okay that was the now-retired canvas wall tent. By the way I always want my tent to be big enough to comfortably stand erect and walk around at least in a nine or ten square foot circle just in case the weather or whatever keeps me in for a long time. The other two types of tent I use for year round camping consist of plastic tarps. For winter I have fashioned A-shaped tarp end and door flaps attached to a large tarp that has a ceiling smoke hole and closable side windows. The large tarp is suspended by a rope or long stick attached as a ridge pole between trees. Sometimes it seems there is a need to support the long sides too in a similar manner. This set up manages the cold wind issue well. But always be aware that NO shelter should be airtight when there is a fire inside. It has been reported that in the Far North more have died from carbon monoxide then from freezing within their shelter. So do not attempt to seal up every little opening That wind may save you from carbon monoxide. For more moderate temperatures I simply string up a big tarp into an open ended A-frame, with the ends closed only during waking hours. I want the ends open while I am sleeping so that bears or other wild ones can clearly see hear and smell from a distance Hey there is a human in there. At these times I keep my food and anything else that might smell interesting in a cache at least over about 50 yards from where I will sleep. So far I have never strung my stuff up in the air, just only cached it in or on the ground in somewhat odor retentive packaging. It has never been stolen or even disturbed by animals large or small. Of course in this Midwest Country we have only the black bears not brown or grisly like Out West. and so far I have seen no wolf coyote raccoon possum skunk etc tracks around my food caches. There are no wolverines as far south I as go. So that is how I do four season camping in the Upper Midwest of North America. I hope I have not been way too wordy. What kind of wintercamping setups do you use, ButterflyEffect, WanderingEng?
A quick Hubski tip: To "tag" somebody in a post, surround their name with the "@" sign on both ends! Now WanderingEng should see your comments, too! Whoa. Somehow I missed this, troischiens. Those sound like some very harsh conditions, especially for a tent which has been put through the ringer! I know there are spray-on and other waterproofing compounds which are effective on clothing and tent materials. I've never personally used any, but will be soon as my down jacket is starting to lose it's water resistance (a big problem in the PNW). Note to self: Coleman fuel is volatile...I typically just buy the MSR stuff, I wonder how volatile that is... I currently have one three-season tent with a tarp, rainfly, and stakes. The latter are a life saver in windy conditions, I'm yet to have much trouble but also haven't been in extremely windy conditions yet. My biggest problem with it is weight, the thing say 5lbs but in reality it's closer to 6lbs, much too heavy for backpacking, so, I'm in the market for a lighter tent. Likely a single-person, or a bivy! I haven't done much winter camping yet, but am hoping to do this I guess this upcoming winter considering the current one is nearly over. Stove set-up hasn't been much of an issue as my tent has a vestibule area which can be great for setting up a stove, especially if you have some sort of windshield. Aluminum works, but really anything with a bit of height you can find nearby will work, too.
My single person three season tent is the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1. It is very much not a "stand up in" tent (troischiens), but it's very lightweight. I've never used it in severe weather, either heavy rain or winds, but I've been happy with it so far. I plan to use it in the winter, too, but never have. My winter camping plans would be cancelled if high winds or heavy snow were forecast. I packed it in eight miles each way last fall for a two night trip that went really well. I recently bought an MSR liquid fuel stove. I think it's the Whisperlite? It's supposed to be good for cold temperatures. The big purchase I need is a winter sleeping bag. I've sort of settled on the Big Agnes Blackburn UL but am waiting for a sale or coupon. I also might need a bigger backpack. My 65 L pack gets pretty full even in the summer, though skipping a bear canister would gain some space. More and bigger gear probably means I need an 85 L bag. I'm looking at this Osprey one.
Thanks ButterflyEffect. I have yet to try a long distance backpack trip, mostly I just only hike less than two miles from car to remote camping site. To reduce number of trips for setting up and taking down camp and to handle hefty weights I use a sled. I'll try to post a photo of it. It's fashioned from a plastic automotive oil change thing from Menard or either Home depot. Note if you ever try a sled use something rigid to pull the sled not just rope otherwise when you stop it might continue and bump your legs. https://imgur.com/4L8vV81 keifermiller if that's not the direct URL to the photo I don't know what else. WanderingEng
ButterflyEffect and WanderingEng and mk, I think maybe I've learned how to post images. https://imgur.com/21HUSP9 https://imgur.com/aEnK5cl https://imgur.com/4L8vV81 https://imgur.com/AbsH2KT Nope, they are not getting embedded, just only showing the links.
I'll try one image at a time. https://imgur.com/21HUSP9
I think issue is that the emedding thingy needs to be fed the direct image link. i.e. edit mk, the first image is prefixed with two spaces and follows a blank line. Shouldn't it be reproduced verbatim instead of embedding? I was trying to show how I was using the i.imgur.com link. Anywhoozle, you should be able to embed your links by swapping imgur.com for i.imgur.com and then throwing a .jpeg on the end.
Thanks keifermiller I will try to follow those instructions
Were you on wet rocks? I think there are few different kinds of crampons, with different capabilities in those kind of situations. Just have to run through the creek!
Crampons for ice climbing, definitely not running anywhere in those but you can sort of fast walk if you skip the rocks poking above the water and just walk on the pebbles a couple inches down. That eventually happened when I started trusting how waterproof the boots were.