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comment by b_b
b_b  ·  2560 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: America is now an outlier on driving deaths

I thought Michigan reached peak stupid when our legislature devoted a huge amount of time and effort to repeal our motorcycle helmet law. Of course then we elected Trump, are encouraging kid Rock to run, and recently voted to allow concealed carry in schools, so I wasn't even close, but still pretty dumb.

We seem to be moving more in the direction that individual choice is the only thing that matters always and forever. That's unfortunate because health societies should be a balance of individual rights and collective sense of community. I suppose one relevant question that liberalism struggles with is, "whose community?" Collective values have to have a foundation in some institution, and the sacrifice that comes with then is always going to favor some lifestyles over others. Not sure how to solve that broadly, but at least technology should make cars safer in the near future.





steve  ·  2560 days ago  ·  link  ·  

while I agree with the concept of not being a dick thereby affecting other people... I am strangely in favor of letting people ride without lids and drive without belts. Neither of those directly affect others.

Having said that, I wear helmets and use seat belts... I just think those are a matter of choice. I'm not religious about this and could likely be swayed...

kleinbl00  ·  2560 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I am strangely in favor of letting people ride without lids and drive without belts. Neither of those directly affect others.

Au contraire.

b_b  ·  2560 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There are of course practical concerns. TL;DR over 90% of people wear seat belts, and a staggering 56% of traffic fatalities were from people not wearing seat belts. That's an insane increase in your odds of dying or being severely injured in a car accident when you choose not to use a seat belt (surely the odds are swayed somewhat by the fact that non-seat belt wearers are probably shittier drivers and thus cause more accidents). Of course that insane $50 billion price tag mostly falls on society to pick up (not to mention the traffic jams that happen after a fatal accident).

All these things are me rationalizing what I feel internally however, which is basically that there's been a radical breakdown in the social covenant in recent years (or at least a tumultuous realignment in process). I think rd95 is getting at a similar point: that when we don't care for ourselves, it's everyone who suffers. We're all going to do harmful things to ourselves and others sometimes; I think that's unavoidable. But for petty things like a seat belt? If you're too dumb to figure out that you should buckle up, then you're too dumb to get to decide; the state should get to tell you you have to.

user-inactivated  ·  2560 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Not to sway you, but the impact of death ripples. Children lose their parents, friends lose each other, people involved in the accident, even if not directly responsible for the death, will suffer emotional trauma. When a person dies before there time, before the world is ready to let them go, they leave behind them a hole like a wound that is hard to heal but easy to re-open.

So yeah, wear your seatbelts and helmets, because it's not just about you. It's also about the people you share your world with.

WanderingEng  ·  2560 days ago  ·  link  ·  

And beyond the personal losses there is increased healthcare burden and loss of skill within companies and industries.

OftenBen  ·  2560 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Neither of those directly affect others.

Technically speaking, those things benefit other people. Not to be too grim about it, but quite a few high-quality organs come from folks riding motorcycles without helmets. There's a reason ER doc's make jokes about 'Donorcycles.' Source: My boss works directly with Gift of Life, and we are starting a new project in conjunction with them soon.

It's a temporary benefit until we get all the kinks out of growing organs in petri dishes, but until that day comes, there is still a high demand for every tissue type you can think of.