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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  2590 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: “Microaggressions”, “Trigger Warnings”, and the New Meaning of “Trauma”

First of all, good on you for going into teaching. I have friends that teach and they find it greatly rewarding. My own mother taught for 20 years and found it to be a hell of deep torment. The friends should be teachers. My mother should not have been.

Second of all, be careful of "other people's children" as we've discussed before. The thing of it is, children are eager little sponges that suck up the moral framework of their parents - if I could say there's one perilous thing I've learned from having a kid, it's that she loves me unreservedly and at her tender age, I can literally do no wrong. She is voraciously incorporating our worldview into hers and applying it with enthusiasm to everything she sees.

So it's not that the kids aren't learning "moral and civil upbringing." It's that they're learning moral and civil upbringing that isn't up to your standards. You're right - this is a problem. We probably should do what we can to make sure children learn the basic values of their society but it needs to be done in such a way that parents aren't observing their parenting being negated every single day.

I had to take that course. It was called "critical issues in modern living" and it was proposed, created, ramrodded through the school board and championed by a friend's mother who - you guessed it - decided everyone else's kids were the problem. And everyone could smell it - "my kid isn't the problem, your kid is the problem!" so they packed it full of get out of jail free cards so that their kids wouldn't have to waste their time. Everyone college bound got to skip it if they took two years of a foreign language. Which, as we all know, is a great substitute for life experience, right? It certainly isn't a way to intensely focus on the kids in danger of dropping out who are taking the minimum courseload. You know, the ones that already have too much life experience.

I graduated a semester early (because I hated that school so much). I started German my junior year (because I was too busy taking a bunch of bullshit honors classes). And since I only had 3 semesters of German, I had to take "critical issues in modern living" with all my burnout wasteoid friends. It was taught by the PE teacher. Its curriculum was assembled by committee. I want you to imagine what eight bored stay-at-home moms decided other people's kids needed to be taught so that they wouldn't become the burnout losers other people's kids' parents most obviously were. That way you can understand how we ended up covering "how to survive a hotel fire" and "how not to catch AIDS" in one 45-minute class.

In order to meet the English requirements (how do you slam 4 years of English in 3 1/2 years?) I also had to take "Humanities", the experimental 2-hour long 1-credit of English course started by my least favorite English teacher. It was basically "we're studying literature, and we're also forcing you to look at art and religion." Great idea in theory. In practice, it was poetry plus slideshows of art. The one cool part was we got to visit a Sikh ashram, and we talked to a Mennonite for an hour, and a Rabbi came in, and then somebody's parents got super upset at all this religious talk and showed up to give two hours of the atheist perspective and then someone else's parents got even more super upset and started a petition to get the class cancelled because it was turning us all into godless heathens.

I took "Humanities" for half of the one year it was offered. I'm told once I bailed it wasn't any fun anyway because most of the course was me poking holes in their instruction ("I think maybe you have that upside down. It makes a lot more sense the other way." "No, I'm sure the artist wants it displayed this way." "How are you sure?" "I'm the artist." "Wait. You're subjecting us to your crappy postmodern scribblings?")

So we come full circle - you might be thinking of the children, but effectively, you're picking a fight with their parents. Nobody thinks their own kids lack ethics or values and they're right - their ethics and values just don't meet your standards. The only way to get there is to start early with the idea that the civil sphere is the source of morality, not the family, and that rarely goes well.

The kids are all right. They really are. They play safe-space trigger-warning bullshit games in college because it works. They generally stop once they get out because it doesn't. Using all the advantage and leverage to you isn't amoral, it's efficient and it's not a failing of the kids, it's a failing of an educational system deeply reliant on clients spending vast sums of money on something abstract that will not recuperate their expenses for a decade or more.





FirebrandRoaring  ·  2590 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You make some fine points.

    it's a failing of an educational system deeply reliant on clients spending vast sums of money on something abstract that will not recuperate their expenses for a decade or more.

How responsible does it leave one within such a system? If you're encouraged to be pragmatic and leverage the hell out of everything, what incentive could there possibly be for a higher good or even ideals to act on?

Frankly, such a state of affairs is disheartening to me. Then again, I'm trying to take on a natural long-term development of a great mix of human needs and desires by trying to institute an artificial order over it in the way I most see fit — an image that is most definitely not shared by the majority of the population. Boo hoo for me being disappointed that the world doesn't bow to my will.

    The only way to get there is to start early with the idea that the civil sphere is the source of morality, not the family, and that rarely goes well.

I know I would feel concerned about the idea that my efforts to bring up a good person are not the focal point of my child's upbringing. While the goals between me and many other parents are not similar (I don't believe many aim at raising a person with an outstanding foundation of axiological perspectives, per se), I do recognize how a parent might feel dismayed at such a notion. Changing parents is, naturally, out of the equation: it's not an option. That being said, parenting classes might create a better perspective by providing important information to act on. (next thing I'm expecting is you telling me this is not how most people operate, either)

I'm a person of optimization and problem-solving. I aim at creating all-encompassing collections of data that, when provided in an efficient enough manner, could catalyze a more profound understanding of the subject — or simply collect all the available information that's currently disparate. Creating one for people similar to my own mindset is something I find a worthwhile endeavor, but I keep getting reminded that that is by far not the biggest part of the population. If I want to create something similar to a bigger group than simply those who share most of the personality traits with me, I suspect I would require an outside perspective from someone at whom the work is aimed. Clashes of personalities, then, seem unavoidable.

kleinbl00  ·  2589 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So a point we keep not connecting on is the peculiar environment of the American university. I've repeatedly observed that the collegiate environment within the United States has grown increasingly cloistered and that the social mores within its walled garden reflect that of the world without to a lesser and lesser degree. A corollary to this would be the economic system that led to this walled garden: student loans are outsized compared to incomes, colleges and universities are increasingly dependent on tuition rather than grants and public funding to stay afloat, and the caliber of an undergraduate degree matters less than simply possessing one which means many universities are competing using luxury dorm rooms, health centers, concierge service and other perqs that are completely divorced from the academic environment.

So we've got a bunch of kids going deeply into debt that are choosing whether to spend their money at one deeply-pampering environment or another. they're being told that their feelings matter and that equality and equity are the most important thing. Effectively, they're being given knives and being told that they're expected to stab.

I just don't see this as a problem with the kids. I see this as a perfectly natural reaction by the kids. More than that, I think most kids understand that they occupy a special environment with weird rules and that they're playing by them. The outrage is real - the butthurt is real - but it doesn't take much for a person to acclimate to a new ruleset. This is why i raise the Google Manifesto - the dominant culture amongst high-achieving college graduates is not one of "i'm special because I'm black" it's one of "I'm special because I'm white and male and everyone else better shut the fuck up."

I agree that the environment we're creating at universities is counter-productive. I disagree that the symptoms displayed there are spreading into the greater world. I have no interest in belittling your concerns but I would caution you to focus on the sources and motivations of your information. Vast swaths of the world are in better shape than you've been led to believe.

FirebrandRoaring  ·  2589 days ago  ·  link  ·  

We're not connecting on that point because we're talking about different things now. You're still on the specific subject while I went on to a more general problem.

The point of optimization is not to eliminate the bad. The point of optimization is to improve the object. "Functional" is merely a step on the ladder.