Okay, there's a clause I thought about including in that first quote which I should have included, as it relates to the second. The whole thing makes it feel hard to date somebody who isn't doing these kind of things because of the amount of time it takes. Having those mutual activities seems like a way of mitigating that issue. So, not so much society (though holy shit I recently saw a picture of some folks back home and I am so okay not relating to what's going on there, elitist or not), as much as dating within society. Ducks Unlimited is amazing, had no idea that was a thing! Okay here's a question - do you feel the same about this as you do as, say, coffee? Because I get a similar vibe. Maybe I do these things in groups because the music scene here isn't very open if you're not in Seattle, my friends seems to move every 6-12 months, and if yr not living in Seattle, good luck having close friendships with people in Seattle (oh no - now I've combined talking about running with complaining about the Northwest. What a perfect storm). It's a stability thing in a way.
My thoughts on coffee are hardly secret. Less flippantly, I think the minute it gets exclusionary you start pissing people off. I mean, you're coming from a standpoint that if someone doesn't run just as much as you do then obviously they can't understand you, they can't value the same things you do and they will never be your true soulmate or some shit and jesus, dude, look at yourself. My wife had exercise-induced asthma. Had because I started running with her. She'd do a mile and I'd do two. She'd do one lap and I'd do two. Then she ran with me. Then she had a kid and started a medical practice and now she has time to run maybe once every six months. Hopefully that'll change. But you know what? It's not like it's causing stress in our relationship. My wife doesn't like... bass. The only artist she's shown any enthusiasm about in the past fifteen years is Norah Jones. Me? I'm flying down to LA to see Front 242 and Severed Heads. I don't even need to ask if she wants to go to see Severed Heads. It's a stupid question. But we've been together fifteen fuckin' years. Look at it this way: in four hours I'm gonna get on a plane. I won't see my wife for ten days. During that time, I'll be doing a bunch of shit she isn't doing, she'll be doing a bunch of shit I ain't doing. And we'll circle back September 1st and hang out on the couch and love each other. is there any practical difference between going away to work and going away to run up and down a goddamn hill? No there is not. You're not special. Your hobbies aren't special. What's special is your desire to see your existence as somehow offputting to those who aren't as hard core as you because just like that poof it is.
I just want to stop by here and say I'm glad I read this exchange between you and ButterflyEffect. I feel like a lot of this could have been said to me or by me, respectively. You make a lot of good points here. I'm not as worried about cutting off whole swathes of humanity; I'm more in a "fuck it, I'm enjoying my life, let's just do this" phase. If I think about it too much, my concern would be how to manage trying to get to know someone better with "no, I can't meet you Friday night because I have to get up early Saturday and run sixteen miles." But that's probably just an excuse for not knowing how to get to know someone better, regardless of what other plans I have.
Let's say that happens. You suggest Tuesday night. She's busy with <different hobby here> and suggests Wednesday. Well, no, you have a group run that night. Saturday? She's out of town with her friends. Okay, how about in two or three weeks? How does that look from the outside? Probably like you're not that interested, right? Unless she understands that running, hiking, whatever is an important but time consuming part of your life. But how can you expect that level of understanding from someone you don't even know yet? (The above is a simulated situation based on true events.)
From the outside? From any side, dude, by saying "I have a group run that night" you're saying "I have a group of friends I would rather hang out with than you and you are not invited." What you're saying is that running is more important than the girl. Which, okay, know your priorities. But stop pretending it's the girl. Stop pretending that a girl as into exercise as you are would be any different because she'll have her own training plan and her own running group and her own routine. A relationship is the additive result of a compromise. You're not willing to compromise. Ergo, you are not in a relationship.
As with WanderingEng, I am also glad that I stumbled onto this interaction here. It made me think about where I am standing and what I am doing. I spend my free time doing similar things as ButterflyEffect with running, climbing, playing poi and hicking. I have been asking myself what kind of partner I want by my side and what you wrote made me rethink my view and maybe generalize it a little more. The best relationships I had were with women that were able to discuss a subject without resorting to being mean, manipulations, or getting too emotional. Even thought we did disagree on some things, there was never the point where this disagreement would be the cause for a breakup. We acknowledged that we have different views and still valued our time together. I haven't had such an interaction in a while now and I wonder when it will come again. I don't know how to summarize that into general terms of what my "perfect partner" would be, but at least it goes away from asking for shared hobbies or having specific views on subjects.
I don't know. I feel like it's a good question, and for the time being I'm ignoring trying to figure it out. Practically speaking I understand having dissimilar hobbies isn't bad, and in a lot of ways it can be good. But how are those hobbies reconciled to something as simple as meeting for coffee to see if you both want to bother working harder? For now, my bags are packed and by the door. I'm off to the Dix Wilderness tomorrow, alone.