Although, I think it'd be of value to state that many branches have evolved to be more accepting. It's not as if the Pope himself supported the incident. The Pope, Orlando's Muslim leadership and Jewish all disavowed this act.
Yet for some reason we aren't allowed to blame the one that hasn't, even though the shooter outright told the world why he did what he did. Even though we have video of the imam from the Orlando Mosque saying that homosexuals deserve violent death. Christianity has had its fangs pulled, it's claws removed and it's balls cut off. Islam has yet to be civilized in such a manner. This is the bigotry of low expectations. Treat them as equal.many branches have evolved to be more accepting.
Yet for some reason we aren't allowed to blame the one that hasn't Well, to look at the shooter's own Imam (Syed Rahman) from his childhood Mosque, I'd argue the opposite. He's utterly denounced the act from multiple news sources. Like here: And here: In fact, it seems as though Rahman was on the money with regards to being radicalized over the internet: Now if you click on the article and continue to read onward, you'll notice this: Which, again, disproves his own spiritual upbringing (by association) influenced by his childhood mosque. . You're right. He pledged allegiance to ISIS. Which is both an extremist and comparably small faction of Islam, not widespread in terms of population by any means. . Ah, yes. This guest Imam? Who is similarly a fundamentalist? . Fundamentalism is by its very definition opposed to the evolution of ideology. To cite one data point and use it to draw a line-of-best-fit can drastically skew the context, re: the guest Imam. It ignores Florida's Imam Muhammed Musri: It ignores Mateen's own Imam Rahman: Rahman agreed. "My personal opinion is that this has nothing to do with ISIS," he said." It ignores a gay Imam, Imam Daayiee Abdullah: “The actions of ISIS in killing gays is fueled by a perverted understanding of Islam. An understanding typically learned by word of mouth, not an actual reading of the text and understanding of the principles of Islam,” Abdullah added." If this hasn't made my point, I don't know anything that will at this time. EDIT: I don't intend for the examples of Imams at the end to be sweeping, although I'm sure there is more evidence for both sides. Frankly, I can't be arsed to discuss much more considering the situation in general, let alone the fact that it feels too soon being so close to it all. I'd be content to settling with "This is a problem, lets work toward a solution" at this point.many branches have evolved to be more accepting.
"It might be some psychological problem or some anger at direction with somebody because, if this is his mosque, we never promoted any kind of extremism," Rahman said. "He might be radicalized by the Internet."
"As for the horror Mateen unleashed, Rahman said, “I condemn it, and I disown it. This is our country. This makes it very hard for us.”
“It is no coincidence that this happened in Orlando,” said a law enforcement source familiar with Robertson’s history of recruiting terrorists and inciting violence. “Mateen was enrolled in [Robertson’s online] Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary.”
"Robertson's school may not have been the only source of Mateen's spiritual guidance. The gunman was at the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman two days before the nightclub attack, according to The Washington Post. That mosque was frequented by American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha, who blew himself up in Syria in 2014, and the two knew each other, according to officials. Mateen's association with Salha led the FBI to interview him in 2014. Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Mike McCaul told Fox News law enforcement determined at the time their contact “was minimal.”"
, even though the shooter outright told the world why he did what he did.
"Mateen was, however, a devout Muslim beholden to the scriptural mandates of Islam. He reportedly pledged allegiance to ISIS during the massacre in a phone call to police. The FBI suspects that he was motivated by jihadism."
(Source here)Even though we have video of the imam from the Orlando Mosque saying that homosexuals deserve violent death.
"Strict Islamic purist groups, like ISIS, follow the letter of the law and carry about these Quranic mandates regularly. For months now, the Islamic State has publicly executed alleged homosexuals by throwing them off of ten-story buildings and then stoning their bodies."
"On Twitter and Facebook, Musri wrote: “On behalf of American Muslims, I want to express our outrage and shock of the mass shooting in DT Orlando, FL. Our thoughts and prayers are with victims & their families.”"
"Yusufiy said she was "devastated, shocked, started shaking and crying" when she heard about the shooting, but she attributed the violence to Mateen's mental illness, not any alliance with terrorist groups.
"he said, “I can’t deny some Muslims do” have a serious problem with gays, and that some Muslims have been taught that gays need to be punished or even killed. ISIS has murdered homosexuals, and five Muslim countries (out of more than 50) still have a death penalty for homosexuality on the books.
This is clearly true, to anyone who studies history and does not major in theory of religious equality, or whatever. However you will be hard-pressed to find agreement here or anywhere else. It is an ugly truth and has no ready solution. That said, the problem with mass shootings in the US is mental illness, not Islam. Broadly speaking.Christianity has had its fangs pulled, it's claws removed and it's balls cut off. Islam has yet to be civilized in such a manner.
As a student of history you are of course aware of who kept civilization going while Christianity was clawing up the furniture and pissing on the carpets in Europe. "That's not fair, that wasn't about religion, that was about politics, see Christianity was a better method of social control than the big mess of every conquered people's religions that preceded it because a monotheistic state religion doesn't leave room for dissent and it was close enough to the cult of Mithras to not alienate the army, so it was encouraged to be violent and repressive from the start to keep the proles in line and that was ingrained by the time it was all that was left of the Empire..." Sure, but using most of the Middle East as proxies for the cold war was politics too.
Who knows what I'm aware of, really. The problem with saying things like this is that it reinforces surface-level history, and people share it, and then other people come later and read it, etc, etc. It is a vast oversimplification. However, I'm not about to take you to task for that because I oversimplify every single post I make on purpose, mostly to see who I can provoke into spewing bullshit. Tonight I was hoping someone would wander by who had majored in theory of religious equality but no dice. Anyway, it continues to take a hell of a lot of rationalization to mount what might be called the progressive position in this particular debate. Aside, I don't think Mithras gets mentioned enough. Something that should be on everyone's bucket list is the Vatican Necropolis, which shelters a lot of "pagan" rock drawings which were possibly/probably Mithraic. It's literally directly under the high seat of Catholicism on earth. That's so fantasy.As a student of history you are of course aware of who kept civilization going while Christianity was clawing up the furniture and pissing on the carpets in Europe.
Hermes is my shepard Meanwhile at Siena Cathedral
This is so bitterly, hilariously, obviously different than saying 'most mass shootings are perpetrated by people non compos mentis'. Withal, in my life I have read a great many studies focusing on humans and the conclusion I have drawn more than any other is -- studying humans is flawed and difficult. I choose to fall back, as ever, on common sense.Epidemiologic studies show that the large majority of people with serious mental illnesses are never violent.
Yes. You're right. That's the point. Call me dense, but I don't see your point. If anything, the only thing I'm gathering from this is that you're pulling on your own readings of studies - which, I wholeheartedly agree are inevitably bound to be bias, fragmented, or otherwise - from these studies you've decided leave it to your own beliefs of common sense... which is a variable to culture?This is so bitterly, hilariously, obviously different than saying 'most mass shootings are perpetrated by people non compos mantis'.
That's also the only real issue that we can address coming out of this. We can as a country work towards getting better more sane laws, programs and systems for dealing with mental illness. Unfortunately I dont think politicians are really all that interested in solving the mental illness problems and are instead more interested in blaming guns (Democrats) and Islamic terrorists (Republicans) .US is mental illness, not Islam