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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The smug style in American liberalism

    And that's the 50-year history of the Republican Party - convincing people to scapegoat someone else so they don't notice you're stealing their livelihood.

Which is easy to do if you're the only party talking to them. I mostly agree, he overstates his point, be he's right that the Democratic party stopped paying attention to working class white people when it realized corporations could raise more money than labor unions. If neither party is representing your interests, but one of them is at least talking to you...

I mean, if the Republicans had run with this instead of disowning it, I would have to at least consider them come election time.





kleinbl00  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What a ridiculous argument to make. AFL-CIO lobbying? resoundingly democratic. The problem is, the only thing the Democrats can talk to ignorant rednecks about is economic issues because the Democratic Party has been the home of progressive liberals since FDR. The Republican Party, on the other hand, can talk about those horrible darkies that we need to build a wall against 'cuz they'll terk yer jerbs and oh by the way, gutting environmental controls will "create jobs."

The argument is that people with conservative social values will listen to a social argument more easily than an economic argument so the Republicans have had an easier time getting socially conservative poor people to vote against their economic interests than the Democrats have had getting socially conservative poor people to evolve a little bit and raise themselves out of squalor while they're at it.

Did that sound elitist? Goddamn right it's elitist. Hate is a better motivator than comfort and the Republicans have been selling hate for 50 years. That doesn't mean the Republicans are "the only party talking to them" that means the Republicans are the only ones saying what they want tohear.

user-inactivated  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·  

(You copied the wrong link I think, or else the AFL-CIO's lobbyists are way more hardcore than I thought.)

The unions are still solidly democratic, there just aren't enough union members to matter. That was what the whole New Democrat thing was all about, giving up on being a leftist party at all and being a kinder, gentler right wing party instead because after Reagan that looked like the best that could be done, and the New Left had already shifted the focus of the left away from labor and towards identity politics, for entirely justified reasons that still mean that it's 2016 and Bernie Sanders looks radical.

kleinbl00  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·  

LOL. Yeah, wrong link.

The unions are solidly democratic, but Republican strategy has eroded them to meaninglessness over the past 50 years. You say cause, I say effect. That's really what we're arguing about - I'm arguing that the politics on the ground create effects like the New Democrats, while you're arguing that the New Democrats are the cause of "nobody talking to the working poor."

Fact of the matter remains - outside of the megachurches, outside of the South, outside of rural concentrations of "values voters", the poor vote Democratic same as it ever was.

user-inactivated  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The poor vote Democrat, the poor an white vote Republican. Democrats are the not-(as-)racist party, they're the party that isn't actively trying to make life worse for anyone who isn't white. They don't have to do a thing to address working class interests as such and they'd still get the votes they get by as least not being actively hostile.

Admittedly, I'm more familiar with the politics of the South, since I live here. But the churches pretty much are the politics on the ground here. They're where the civil rights movement organized, and they're where the right organizes. In the town my father comes from the only place you'll meet a concentration of democrats is the Freemasons of all things, and as much as the conspiracy nuts would like to believe otherwise, they're more about charity than politics.

kleinbl00  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Right - the place where the 1 percenters convinced the poor to fight a war for slavery 150 years ago. The place the Democrats effectively lost when they supported desegregation. That's the whole battle - the Republicans picked up those votes by banking on hatred because they were up for grabs.

My grandfather was a 32nd degree mason. From Bastrop County Texas, no less.

user-inactivated  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·  

W. J. Cash, in 1940:

    Proud, brave, honorable by its lights, courteous, personally generous, loyal, swift to act, often too swift, but signally effective, sometimes terrible, in its action -- such was the South at its best. And such at its best it remains today, despite the great falling away in some of its virtues. Violence, intolerance, aversion and suspicion toward new ideas, an incapacity for analysis, an inclination to act from feeling rather than from thought, an exaggerated individualism and too narrow a concept of social responsibility, attachment to fictions and false values, above all too great attachment to racial values and a tendency to justify cruelty and injustice in the name of those values, sentimentality and a lack of realism -- these have been its characteristic vices in the past. And, despite changes for the better, they remain its characteristic vices today.

    In the coming days, and probably soon, it is likely to have to prove its capacity for adjustment far beyond what has been true in the past. And in that time I shall hope, as its loyal son, that its virtues will tower over and conquer its faults and have the making of the Southern world to come. But of the future I shall venture no definite prophecies. It would be a brave man who would venture them in any case. It would be a madman who would venture them in face of the forces sweeping over the world in 1940.

But the South was still voting Democrats into House and state governments until the 90s. The Democrats lost the South's presidential votes with the Civil Rights Act, but it wasn't until Newt that the South went solidly Republican. Wikipedia has nice tables of presidential and gubernatorial. It took the Republicans Party a long time to really take over here, and I think it's naive to chalk their eventual success, decades later, up as a direct result of the civil rights movement.

kleinbl00  ·  3143 days ago  ·  link  ·  

And not to repeat myself:

1) dixiecrats

2) Southern Strategy

3) DOMA et al.

Taken more broadly, the South is an area where the rich have systematically coerced the poor into voting against their best interests for 200 years. The Contract with America only sealed the deal. A lot of that was the fact that the Democrats they were voting for were shitheels like Strom Thurmond and George Wallace.