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comment by bioemerl
bioemerl  ·  3147 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: People Still Don't Get the Link between Meat Consumption and Climate Change

    Don't you remember all of the "Drugs are Bad" and tons of other campaigns like that?

I remember being lied to and told that marajuana was a horrible evil thing that always ruins lives and makes us all evil people, that doing any form of drug is horribly wrong and that to do anything but be sober is a horrible sin.

Kids don't absorb complex information at the level needed to teach them in a way that is nuanced and good for society in the long run.

    That aside, and excuse snide tone earlier, what's wrong with guiding? What's wrong with telling kids (of appropriate age, I don't want that twisted) the dangers, consequences or in some of the cases the benefits of

That's information, and that's fine.

You aren't advocating for education, you "are" (I assumed your post was) advocating to push the viewpoint "using things that pollute is bad, and we shouldn't use things that pollute". There is a massive difference between the two, and a school that teaches this subject properly will have students coming out with views that are not "we shouldn't pollute no matter what".

Should we educate kids on all the topics you mention? Yes! Should we "teach" them that drugs are bad, recycling is good, diet is good, and so on? No!

The former, the dispersal of topics, discussion, and honest flow of opinions between people is healthy and good for society. The latter is setting the stage to tell people what they should think is right or wrong, rather than allowing them to come to their own decision on the matter.

    I would not mind a few hours of "kids, that might not be as tasty as meat, but this is important for X, Y and Z reasons and each of you can chip in and help the climate!"

This is propaganda, the pushing of a viewpoint.

If it was "Meat substitutes exist, and are said to be good for X reasons, and have Y consequences" I am perfectly good with it. The way you phrase it crosses the line.

    Or is this that twisted learning that students should find, deduce, research and decide on their own… in-between loads of homework and trying to actually have some life.

I was in high school not long ago. It was a fucking breeze, and I had massive amounts of free time to research and learn what I want. Will some kids have a tougher time? Probably, but your description of this world where people are incapable of learning, incapable of learning things of their own volition, is absurd. The notion that we should teach them the right ideas because of that is just plain wrong.

Will some people not bother to research, study, and so on? Yeah, but that ignorance is their choice to make, not ours to make for them.

    I don't mean you as much disrespect as you will likely read from my words, especially if its caused by misunderstanding my previous post and taking it in such radical direction, but I don't get how you got that idea.

I live for these sorts of conversations. The idea of you being angry at me doesn't really matter.

I do not care who you are, what you feel about me, or what you think of me, so long as you are honest and willing to try and discredit what I am saying without being concerned if I think you dislike me because of it.





Devac  ·  3147 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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bioemerl  ·  3147 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    while you might live for that type of conversations to me it seems like you are going to go for contrarian angle no matter what I will say.

If I agreed with you (or just don't want to bother with a response to a section) I won't reply. No reason to say anything when there is nothing to say.

    I live and had a quality lessons on the above topics. Propaganda? Perhaps, but I don't really care. Just like I don't care for illicit drugs.

Is your argument here really going to rest on "I don't really care if it's propaganda"? I don't even have to say anything outside of just repeating your argument here.

Propaganda is not a good thing, and if you are exposed to it, or are exposing people to it, you should attempt to end that thing. It is a stain on the ability for people to think freely and develop their own opinions, ideals, and so on.

It doesn't matter if you care, what matters is the people who will be hurt, the ideas that die, when propaganda is accepted and freely spread. Unless you are willing to argue that propaganda doesn't do this, or that what you mention is not a form of propaganda, then you have no valid argument.

    On the other hand I was in school where I didn't even realize that I'm attending AP everything sans history and maths on a level that ended around calc II for CS majors.

So your opinions and thoughts of highschool being super busy are based on your very unique situation?

Devac  ·  3147 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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bioemerl  ·  3147 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    3. Presenting at least two sides of argument

Don't present argument, present researched and understood fact. This is how they do it in every other classroom from evolution to astronomy.

"The earth has seen X degree rise due to warming in the last year"

"It is suspected by these institutions that this X degree rise will cause Y effects."

"These activities are known to release X amounts of carbon dioxide."

It's that simple. No statements about what you should do, or what you should think, just the facts and definitions that are required to come to your own conclusion on the topic.