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comment by mk
mk  ·  4584 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Francois Hollande wins French presidency
I just heard about that this morning. Interesting times for Europe. IMHO it seems time that the blame shift from the borrowers some.

One of the biggest problems of modern finance seems to be the extent to which irresponsible lending can go before a correction comes. Greece never had the type of finances that would justify the credit they were afforded when times were good. It was actually German credit by proxy. So of course, the Germans are the ones left with the tab, -it was their credit that underwrote the rationale for the loans after all. For Greeks to suffer so much now is not a defense of the Euro, or Germany, but of a financial system that enabled it.





speeding_snail  ·  4584 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I don't know if most credit is by proxy German, but I think that the Greek/Spanish/Italians aren't the only ones to blame. Sure, they lended irresponsably, but the ones who facillitated this should have seen this crises coming from miles away.

I agree that the Greek suffer for the system, however, not only for the system. Since we live in this crappy system, Europe has to protect the euro from failing, otherwise all European countries (including the UK) will have big trouble (and probably radicalize). The Greek, Spanish, Italians and Portugese will have to suffer until either the system is reformed or the debt crisis is resolved one way or another.

mk  ·  4584 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    I don't know if most credit is by proxy German, but I think that the Greek/Spanish/Italians aren't the only ones to blame. Sure, they lended irresponsably, but the ones who facillitated this should have seen this crises coming from miles away.

What I mean, is that it was Germany's economic strength that allowed banks to rationalize cheap loans to financially troubled Eurozone countries. Germany's Euro association was in essence a moral hazard that lead to excessive loans to Greece. But, I think it goes even further than that; banks are the ones playing this game, and are by-and-large agnostic to the outcomes. That's why seeing the coming crisis didn't change their behavior. The smart banks like Goldman Sachs can play both sides.

As for protecting the system, I'd say that what happened in Greece this weekend shows how protecting the system can lead to radicalization. They are suffering, and not necessarily for their own future's sake. If Greece had its own currency, they could devalue it and suffer so much less. What do they gain by saving the Euro? And is it worth the costs? Who are they suffering for?: Germany? Themselves? The banks? These questions aren't easy to answer.

speeding_snail  ·  4581 days ago  ·  link  ·  
The problem of radicalization isn't only in play in Greece. The whole of Europe is starting to radicalize (or at least show signs of it). You are right that the Greek aren't necessarily suffering for their own sake. One proposed solution is that Greece gets out of the euro zone and goes bankrupt. If they start printing more money to pay of debts I am afraid we will see hyperinflation like in Germany during the crash of the 1930s.

The greatest problem is that the system needs reforming, but nobody has the courage or knows how. And being human, we do what we do best when we don't know what to do; nothing.

ps. sorry for the late reply

mk  ·  4580 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    The greatest problem is that the system needs reforming, but nobody has the courage or knows how. And being human, we do what we do best when we don't know what to do; nothing.

I agree that Europe and the ECB are paralyzed, but Greece doesn't have the luxury to wait and see anymore. IMHO if Greece is to bow out, they need to do it swiftly, and while it doesn't seem inevitable. Everyone knows that they cannot pay off the debts they do owe. It's my guess that they will leave the Euro in the next few months.

You might be right about the hyperinflation. Crazy times.