a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Who Won Science Fiction’s Hugo Awards, and Why It Matters

    Nonetheless, based on his voluminous writings, it can be said that Theodore Beale—who writes fiction as a hobby while working as a game designer—openly opposes racial diversity, homosexuality, and women’s suffrage. Beale quibbles with those assertions, as he did with me when I reached him at his home in Northern Italy. For example, he says he doesn’t oppose all women’s suffrage, just women (and most men) voting in a representative democracy, like the one we have, um, in America. The reason: “Women are very, very highly inclined to value security over liberty” and thus are “very, very easy to manipulate.”

Wow.

    The Culture Wars are raging at the highest levels (and all corners) of American society. Substitute weaponry for verbiage, and this could easily be the stuff of a sci-fi novel.




Herunar  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What an absolute ass-hat. It is scary to think that so many people think along those lines.

rinx  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What scares me more is he works as a game designer. How many women does he work with? Is he in charge of hiring anyone? People like him being giving power over others is really, really sad.

dublinben  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm sure he finds it equally scary that we give everyone (especially women) the power to vote in a representative democracy. What makes your beliefs and opinions on this matter any more legitimate than his?

Herunar  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I didn't imply any inherent supremacy on my part, but I still stand-by my comment of him being an absolute ass-hat. He can be against an encompassing representative democracy all the ding-dong day and that's fine but I'll still think he's an absolute ass-hat for thinking that, and I can be scared and/or upset that people think in a similar fashion.

user-inactivated  ·  3387 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sorry about that, Herunar, here's a positive reply from me to balance things out.

dublinben  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Does that let you dismiss his beliefs? Because, it certainly looks like you're not even seriously considering why someone might have a different opinion from you. That looks an awful lot like inherent supremacy of your own opinion over that of others.

Tiger_the_Lion  ·  3386 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's true that considering other opinions is important, but I think you're taking this line of thinking too far. There are some beliefs that are just wrong. It's a mistake to act like all opinions are necessarily equal.

dublinben  ·  3386 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Who are you to determine what beliefs are "just wrong" or not?

Tiger_the_Lion  ·  3386 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Where did I say that it's entirely up to me? Some statements are facts, whether or not you or I believe them.

Herunar  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
arguewithatree  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

seriously?

user-inactivated  ·  3387 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
j4d3  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"Easy to manipulate" must mean "surprisingly resistant to the idea that violence is acceptable" in libertarian.

user-inactivated  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Libertarians don't believe in anything like that. We don't believe that violence is acceptable in any form, we do believe in universal suffrage and representative democracy, and we highly value all people as a part of that democracy.

To imply that Libertarians are misogynist violent abusers is very rude and ignorant.

dingus  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

many of the Libertarians I know(admittedly, mostly online in anonymous form) are misogynists.

user-inactivated  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I've been a part of the Libertarian party for over 10 years now, am on the Libertarian committee of St. Louis and am a voting member in our primaries. Internet Libertarians are a joke to anyone who is actually in the party. We will surely take their votes though.

It is a damn shame that Libertarianism has been taken hostage by some fucked up version of the right wing when they are one of the worst things about the Republican party. You would think that with our staunch support of gay rights, marijuana legalization, and pro-choice agenda that it would be very clear to the misogynistic religious right that they are not welcome here, and yet I have to deal with this newly prevalent version of Reddit Libertarian all the god damned time. It's a huge pain in the ass and it sets back my party all the time.

The best way to think of Libertarians who actually live outside of their parents' basements are as Democrats who want to reign in spending, or Republicans who want gay people to smoke marijuana on their wedding day. Everything else is essentially a stolen use of the word Libertarian.

user-inactivated  ·  3387 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Right there with you. Libertarian used to mean something entirely different:

    The term libertarian was first used by late-Enlightenment free-thinkers to refer to the metaphysical belief in free will, as opposed to determinism. The first recorded use was in 1789, when William Belsham wrote about libertarianism in opposition to "necessitarian", i.e. determinist, views.

    Libertarian came to mean an advocate or defender of liberty, especially in the political and social spheres, as early as 1796, when the London Packet printed on 12 February: "Lately marched out of the Prison at Bristol, 450 of the French Libertarians." The word was again used in a political sense in 1802, in a short piece critiquing a poem by "the author of Gebir", and has since been used with this meaning.

    The use of the word libertarian to describe a new set of political positions has been traced to the French cognate, libertaire, coined in a scathing letter French libertarian communist Joseph Déjacque wrote to mutualist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in 1857, castigating him for his sexist political views. Déjacque also used the term for his anarchist publication Le Libertaire: Journal du Mouvement Social, which was printed from 9 June 1858 to 4 February 1861 in New York City. In the mid-1890s, Sébastien Faure began publishing a new Le Libertaire while France's Third Republic enacted the lois scélérates ("villainous laws"), which banned anarchist publications in France. Libertarianism has frequently been used as a synonym for anarchism since this time.

    Although the word libertarian continues to be widely used to refer to socialists internationally, its meaning in the United States has deviated from its political origins. Libertarianism in the United States has been described as conservative on economic issues and liberal on personal freedom (for common meanings of conservative and liberal in the United States); it is also often associated with a foreign policy of non-interventionism. Since the resurgence of neoliberalism in the 1970s, free-market capitalist libertarianism has spread beyond North America via think tanks and political parties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

And here's a link to a part of that wikipedia page where it talks about different kinds of libertarianism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Prominent_currents

dingus  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I guessed as much.

dublinben  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No True Libertarian, and all that? I've been acquainted with quite a few members of the big-L Libertarian party, and the small l libertarian movement (Free State Project, Porcfest, etc.) and they generally fit all of the negative stereotypes they've been assigned.

user-inactivated  ·  3388 days ago  ·  link  ·  

To be sure, there can be asshole Libertarians, just as there are asshole Dems and Repubs. You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life, the facts of life.

user-inactivated  ·  3387 days ago  ·  link  ·  

bioemerl  ·  3384 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"Women are non-violent and peaceful peoples"