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comment by Herunar
Herunar  ·  3394 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: It's a White Man's Internet

Mmm, now, the thing is, I do think most of this discussion revolves around the US (there is probably even more racism against minority groups in certain European countries but I think it's a very different sort) and the thing is, racial politics in the US are probably as virulent as the Northern Irish sectarian conflict, but also very different. Now, from what I heard from my Catholic Northern Irish friends, Protestants and Catholics make up an almost even amount of the population there - the Protestants have a small majority, but it very small.

In the US we aren't creating an issue that parallels what is happening in NI. That issue is already there and has been for a long time, simply because the white majority (and I say white in the context of the US here again - not all white people, like people you could call minority whites like Polish immigrants or the Jewish community and etc) was in a position that was inherently superior to African Americans in particular as well as the Asian and Hispanic community, among other non-white minorities. They completely outnumbered them, held a disproportionate amount of power and for a long time the US was basically an apartheid state in some respects. That isn't to say that EVERY SINGLE WHITE PERSON who benefited from their advantages was racist or at fault - I doubt anyone would argue that, but the system was most certainly rigged in their favor.

Do you see how radically different that is from NI? The Protestants may have some advantages but you could argue that the Catholics held their own pretty well. The advantages that the white ruling classes had over minorities in the US is nothing like that - the us-them mentality has been there for ages. And just as you pointed out there is no obvious solution in the north, there is no easy, obvious solution in the States. It will take time to really heal all those wounds and because of institutional racism African Americans in particular still suffer a lot of injustice today.

That's why those safe spaces are pretty important. But once again, I really don't think many of those exist to the extent that the media portrays them. I don't have a problem with them though, much in the way I don't have a problem with, for example, a gaming convention that caters to the LGBT crowd exclusively or Feminist Clubs/Societies that have 'women-only' nights to discuss pertinent issues that only they can really empathize with and fully understand. These safe spaces for marginalized and minority communities are so very, very important, just because that minority identity often forms a pretty core part of their everyday experience and life in a way that being part of the majority doesn't.

I think there are very, very few people that sincerely believe "all white people are inherently racist". From a US perspective and context, I think a lot of people are often very frustrated and scared for their safety and their communities, and that frustration can often translate into statements that may come across as a bit inflammatory but are actually sorta understandable if you consider their perspective.





RicePaddy  ·  3394 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't really want to get too bogged down in the history of The Troubles, I was more trying to use it as an illustration for segregation/the us-them mentality. I see the point you're driving at in your third paragraph, I agree/disagree to a certain extent but just so that I don't end up going into too much history (and a lot of Irish history is very contentious) I'll just leave it.

You may well be right, the phenomenon of self-segregation could just be amplified by the media. Personally, I'm pretty unconvinced that it's a net-good. In my eyes, it's just preaching to the choir, and opening up rifts even more. Which of us is right, I don't know, but I see where you're coming from and take it into consideration.

There are a few Americanisms that spill across the water over here, and I've begun to see in recent years more people here in Ireland discussing the race issues here in the same way that you would discuss race issues in America. Some of my interest in the matter stems from my opinion that the commentary on your side of the Atlantic simply doesn't translate over to our side because our histories are far too different; and yet I do see some of it translating over directly.

Anyways, thanks for the discussion! I really appreciate interesting conversation and it's given me quite a bit to think about!