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comment by deanSolecki
deanSolecki  ·  3391 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: It's a White Man's Internet

I'd be a terrible politician, because I generally address myself to people that are either already of the opinion that I hold, or they could be brought to it pretty easily. I'm not going to win over people on the other side of the fence, and I don't try. I don't think there's a middle ground that we should be converging on. They're wrong, their positions are vulgar, and accepting any of it in the name of mutual understanding is out of the question. The people I'm concerned with are the moderates. The people who can see that MRAs, nativists, and anarcho-capitalists are burning down the house, but for whatever reason don't feel compelled to do anything about it.

And to those people I'm stating a call to action: Call this shit out and let people that are getting roughed up know that you're on their side. In the context of an online community it means showing support for the "others" that get piled on by a vocal, racist/misogynistic minority. If the silent majority let's that slide those people might very well leave. And I think that we don't want that.

In the broader political landscape there are a lot of implications. MLK Jr. talks about the "white moderate" in Letter from Birmingham Jail and it's something I've come back to a lot in my personal considerations. A silent majority is complicit if an empowered minority brutalizes a marginalized minority.

As for the zero-sum game, I think it would be difficult to conceive of it any other way. White, male America is the beneficiary of years of injustice. The dynamic is different in other countries and at different times, but that is the reality here and now. Equality would absolutely benefit everyone, but it will come at the cost of a crooked privilege being revoked from those that are rulers now. To them it can only be viewed as a loss. This is short-sighted and egotistical, but I don't think pointing that out is going to change anyone's behavior. If someone with a broken moral compass has 10 yachts, and you tell them they can only have 6 "in the name of equality" they're going to view it as a zero-sum game in which the violence is visited on them. That they would get to live in a healthier society as a result of this isn't going to win hearts and minds in that camp.

As for casual racism, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm a stereotypical white guy. I don't hate white people, or men, but I'm sick of seeing the violence a segment of my group is doing in the world. I don't think we need to be polite about it.

But again, I'd be a shitty politician.





pyrrhonic  ·  3390 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    MLK Jr. talks about the "white moderate" in Letter from Birmingham Jail

I've found Malcolm X's take on white liberals to be pretty informative.

galen  ·  3390 days ago  ·  link  ·  

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

    I'm a stereotypical white guy.

    a lot of white men are angry.

    They're angry at mexicans and they're angry at women. They're angry at a Big Government that ostensibly serves the interests of minorities and women, exclusively.

    An attack on injustice is a proxy war on the white man.

    When an angry white man talks about "social justice warriors" he is laying his mind bare to you; justice is necessarily a war on white men because that is who injustice serves.

    I'd be remiss to leave out the economic elephant in the room: the angry white man is all the more angry because privilege is delegated by class as well as race and gender. That the angry white man should blame other angry white men for his economic woes is something that doesn't occur to him, amazingly.

    White, male America is the beneficiary of years of injustice. The dynamic is different in other countries and at different times, but that is the reality here and now. Equality would absolutely benefit everyone, but it will come at the cost of a crooked privilege being revoked from those that are rulers now. To them it can only be viewed as a loss.

Who the fuck are these angry white men you're talking about? They're clearly not stereotypical white men, because you're one of those and you don't display any of the qualities you've attributed to them: anger at minorities, fear of progress, viewing any increase in equality as a loss.

Could these angry white men be the Red Tribe?

AdonisGksu  ·  3390 days ago  ·  link  ·  

First of all, I'd like to thank you for being civil in your response. I meant my comment in that way so I appreciate you doing the same. Personally I feel like lately there has been too little civil disagreement and resulting refinement of dialogue within the social justice movement. To me, that's the real power in debate, the ability to refine your arguments until they're razor honed and unassailable. So, thank you for responding.

On your main point I'll agree to disagree. But I'll say that two things. First, in my experience positivity always is more powerful and affects more lasting change than negativity. I have yet to see calling it out work to change hearts. Most people react defensively to being put on the spot like that and it takes a lot of concerted effort to retrain yourself to handle it better. To me, the presupposition of that much internal change would be better spent on the actual problems instead of taking the easy way out of calling someone a racist douche. Second, in my own life I've seen that social respect and equality is never a zero sum game. There is no limit on the amount of love and appreciation we can give out. But if we're moving into economic realms, yes there are a finite number of pennies running around. 10 yachts versus 6 is an entirely different question. After all, one can be dirt poor and still be happier than any billionaire. But we can do better, that's obvious.

And about the casual racism, you can do with that what you will. I've read a lot about racism only being from white people, or the 3rd wave let's-rewrite-the-dictionary "power+privilege" and I reject the premise there. I personally don't think the color of your skin makes any difference if you're saying things that attribute negative characteristics to a large portion of a race of people. If you're white and you say racist things about black people, that's racist. If you're black and say racist things about white people, that's racist. If you're white and you say racist things about white people, that's racist. But I may have been painting with a broad brush, so feel free to ignore if you don't think it applies.