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comment by _refugee_
_refugee_  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: My novel wasn’t the problem, it was me

    Except poetry. Seems like there are a lot more women there too.

I thought this all through high school too. Then I went to college and my poetry creative writing classes were actually more guys than gals. And once you immerse in the genre, you realize there are actually a lot more popular men poets than women.

However I think your peers and your current vantage point can really make it seem otherwise. I remember thinking that poetry was not a form of writing that one could do "seriously," as in, that one would be taken as a serious writer if one wrote poems. Quite the contrary in fact.

I never thought literature was a male dominated field until I got really, really involved in it. You should check out the VIDA count. It tracks women in literature, especially publication rates for women vs. men in magazines.

Of course, it doesn't look at the rates for all magazines ever, just what I suppose are considered "major" ones. I'm all for anything near parity, even 40/60, especially with fluctuations. But the ones that are consistently publishing women in a marked minority bother me.





jleopold  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's a neat study, and I will definetly have to look at their other literature, but I think that 6 out of 21 not being close to parity isn't terrible. With three (probably four this year) having more women writers than men. I would like to know gender stats in regards to submissions too. If a magazine doesn't get as many submissions from women, for what ever reason, saying they aren't near parity would be rather unfair. There's always something to want to know about a study. Besides that though, I realize 'famous' poets are overwhelmingly male, it still seems to me that most poetry books being published these days are written by women. Especially in local and self-publishing spheres, with books stocked in local libraries, bookstores, and coffee shops. Like the study tla mentioned, I think there is a huge difference between 'professional authors' and all writers, which would be much harder to find data on.

_refugee_  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I certainly spend a lot of money each year on poetry books, not to mention significant manhours on at least a biweekly basis reading most semi-popular literary magazines that are hosted online. I don't have the impression that you do of prevalence of female poets over men.

I guess I'll take this time to point out that Agni and the New Yorker have always published poetry. Fuck, Dorothy Parker helped make the New Yorker what it is.

However, there's no real way to prove our perceptions one way or another without extensive, and ultimately not-really-that-rewarding, data mining. My time is better spent.

At the risk of sounding like a snob, though, as a decently published poet applying to MFA programs this year who has managed to establish herself in a friendly crowd of similarly passionate poetry-writing individuals, I think there might be more breadth and depth to the trends I believe I see in the poetry world. I do edit a literary magazine to boot.

I certainly do not believe that women represent an overwhelming majority, or "most," of current poetry book publications. But listing all the male poets currently publishing that I can off the top of my head really isn't valid evidence of that - so like I said, we can agree to disagree, but I'm gonna say I got a bit more in the way of current credentials.

Also, 6/21 is more than a third. I mean, six is a small number. But so is 21. I don't know, it feels like saying that $.77 on every dollar isn't that big of a difference. Shit adds up, mang.

jleopold  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Something I forgot to think of is location. I'm in a hot bed of aging hippies and yuppie hipsters, and there are at least three explicitly feminist publishing houses in town, so that is sure to be affecting my experience some.

As an unpublished poet, trying to get a start before graduating, with a small group of semi-literary friends, I have to ask: what lit mag? I'll have you know, my list of rejection e-mails is getting pretty impressive.

Also, it's a good thing your aiming to write, because 7/21 is a third. Yeah, it adds up, but the overall trend seems to be positive.

_refugee_  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I got a 2200 on the SAT and I took it once. Don't worry honey; I can math too.

Kenning journal - we are open for submissions but this will be our last issue. I've also run their blog for three years.

jleopold  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm sure you can, but I just really couldn't resist that little opening. Besides, for all I know, that could mean a 600 on Math.

It's a shame your closing down. I like a lot of the stuff on your website, more than pretty much any other magazine I've found. Beloit Poetry Journal may win, but not by much. I really liked that Mandel piece. Even the website looks sharp and works well. You guys have a good eye.

_refugee_  ·  3395 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks. I'm pretty flattered by that. It has been really hard work to keep it going, unfortunately a big hurdle is that no one is very tech savvy and also our most influential editor has basically no time. Plus sometimes messes up our submissions manager. I do like our layout though. I just wish Wordpress in general was easier to wrangle.

I love and admire Beloit.

I have a few other personal favorites; Neon, Radar, FLAPPERHOUSE (disclaimer: they did take some poetry so I have a bias, but they're probably my favorite magazine I've been published in, or among them), Blackbird which is run out of VCU, trying to remember what else but running dry off the top of my head.

If you don't use/aren't aware of the website Duotrope, I recommend you check it out. Yes, you have to pay, but I consider it worth it. Well worth it. Duotrope is the website I think of whenever discussions about "Should hubski charge/have a fee/whatever" come up, because in my mind Duotrope provides an amazing, comprehensive service I can't get anywhere else and I pay gladly every month with no problem.

Hell, check out the free trial and if you like it, I'll buy you a month. It's a great resource for finding lit mags to read and submit to and also really helps just - the pain of the submissions process.

jleopold  ·  3395 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Whether naturally gifted of not, you guys have managed to put together a more navigstable website than some big journals (I hate the Poetry site) and most of the colleges I've been looking at lately. WordPress seems to work better for blogs, when they tried to expand and make it work for full sites, they lost some usability.

I will have to look at those magazines. I enjoy Blackbird, and I've submitted there before.

Thanks a lot for the offer and all the suggestions and advice, I've seen Duotrope mentioned before, and it seems like a great resource. I may be remembering wrong, but I think I've used a list of magazines they put out for free before.

b_b  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Haha, I'm surprised you didn't fire back with a comment on the "your aiming." That's what I would have gone with if it were a correction pissing contest.

_refugee_  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That was going to my next move if this continues.

tla  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If people aren't nominating women despite women being supposedly more prolific, then that is a problem too.

jleopold  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by nominating here.

tla  ·  3396 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Brain fart. I meant "getting submissions from". If women are considered more prolific yet not submitting their stuff, that's a problem.