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comment by zebra2
zebra2  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: 10 most challenged books of 2011
    IMO it should be banned, and I've never said that about any book, ever. Ok, maybe not banned, but good god, it sounds like an assault on the English language.

I can't help but think of how much flak Mark Twain got over writing Huckleberry Finn in the dialect that people spoke instead of "proper English". It's one thing to put this kind of writing in a formal work, but using this in a creative work isn't anti-language, it's a recognition of reality. Mistaking this as acceptable for an essay on Shakespeare isn't a gaffe from ttyl's author, it's an issue of someone else's stupidity.





dublinben  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I think it's quite different to have a novel include realistic dialogue from colorful characters. It's another thing entirely to attempt to tell a story entirely in the 'dialect' of a half-literate youth. Good literature should foster intellectual growth, not promote the status quo.
riemannman  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment sends me ageist vibes. What does youth have to do with it?

Also, following proper English grammar says nothing about literacy. Maybe we should all stop criticizing the text and pick up the book and read it first.

I'm pretty sure Mark Twain's novels are a pretty apt analogy in this situation. (Not the quality of the content, but in the sense that the dialect/writing format it is written in should not directly affect what we think of the work.)

dublinben  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Age has nothing to do with it. Half-literacy is the problem. There are perfectly eloquent young people who would be embarrassed to read TTYL in class.
winston  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Twain's most celebrated character is a half literate youth.
zebra2  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    I think it's quite different to have a novel include realistic dialogue from colorful characters. It's another thing entirely to attempt to tell a story entirely in the 'dialect' of a half-literate youth.

I'm wholly unconvinced that the two cases here are different, especially with the specific examples given.

dublinben  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
After reviewing HF, it appears to be entirely in HF's voice, which I didn't remember. He's still using words though.

Judging by many of the reviews from actual young people TTYL is hardly comparable. I stand by b_b's declaration of it as an insulting assault on the English language.

b_b  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Twain was, first of all, already quite famous when he wrote HF; you have to show you know the rules before you can break them. Second, he was purposefully trying to shed light on illiteracy that was rampant among rural youth and blacks.

I don't know if Ms. Myracle was trying to shed light on illiteracy among today's youth, but using text/IM speak would be a good way, I suppose.

zebra2  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I'm not convinced that textspeak can be synonymous with illiteracy. There are tons of people that use texting shorthand just because it's good for that. While there may be some that don't know better, I don't think it makes sense to assume illiteracy through textspeak. Either way, the dialect of HF didn't become the status quo, why have that concern here?

Knowing the rules, as in knowing English grammar, is a petty task. It's especially arbitrary to need to show it through fame. And as you should know, the merits of artistic works don't ride on their author's fame or history.

You're conflating your own concerns over the sanctity of language with the mission of an artistic work. Ignoring unsavory aspects of reality is absolutely not the mission of art, so attacking the work on those grounds is pretty futile.

b_b  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I wasn't being literal. "Knowing the rules before you break them" is a figure of speech. It means that unless people know you're a serious person with something to say, using an alternative format just makes you look stupid. It may be an unfair critique, but it reminds me of a Banksy quote: "All artists are willing to suffer for their work. But why are so few prepared to learn to draw?" The same applies here. There is an inherent beauty to sentence structure, not just content that is completely lost in shorthand texting and messaging.

I did a quick academic literature search for how IM affects literature. Interesting results. It appears that lots of IM and texting give kids more confidence in writing, increases their vocabulary and (surprisingly) spelling skills, but that it decreases reading comprehension and the ability to distinguish non-standard from standard English. Mixed results, it seems.

thenewgreen  ·  4616 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    I don't know if Ms. Myracle was trying to shed light on illiteracy among today's youth, but using text/IM speak would be a good way, I suppose.
This seems highly unlikely) . This is unfortunate because this does seem like it could be a valid literary device used to highlight an emerging form of illiteracy or at the very least an emerging communication style. But it turns out it's just a bs teenie novel.