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comment by _refugee_
_refugee_  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Your job will never love you.

Wait. Wait. Are you telling me....no you can't be, this is crazy.

Are you saying... Are you saying that absolute statements are not only flat stupid, but also in practice often impossible?

Dear God my life's work has been validated.

Next you're going to tell me that in order for some people to 'win,' others have to lose!

Let me try!

"Everyone should be poor."

Oh, no, that's not going to work, is it?





deepflows  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Your point being?

_refugee_  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Most intelligent people with a little life experience are able to recognize "all or nothing" statements as inherently shallow, ill-considered viewpoints, complete with a few steaming ladlefuls of false dichotomy on top which, well, are false and create false "corridors of options" if you will. Of course the false narrowing of options ("white collar or blue collar, manager or non-manager, rich or not") is only added on top of our delicious, full-fat, total-junk logic dinner on special occasions, when we have been good children and politely not pointed out that our meal of rainpool-deep, high-school-stoner-level-of-insight, so-black-and-white-you-could-call-it-a-zebra-or-let's-go-capulets-and-montagues phrases weren't stated or even implied by the comment which elicited their outpouring.

"You don't have to always be blue collar" is so very different than "Everyone should be white collar," but then again I guess it's harder to feed an audience on accurate interpretations than it is on combustive exaggerations.

Those statements aren't made because that's what kb was saying. They're being made because, with a jump, two joints, and a tightrope, you can see how they kind of respond to him, and because it's way easier to distract the crowd with statements we are all heavily inclined to emotionally agree with than to realize there's actually almost nothing to see here except some dude on the internet saying "Hey! You're in a box! Yes I see that! Yes it's a box! Did you know though, maybe sometime you could try leaving it? There are other boxes, even!"

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed yet how much I hate "only this or that," "all this or all that," "hugs don't save lives so they are pointless," rhetoric? "Boo, this article about privilege only makes white people feel better about themselves for reading about privilege. Articles like this are shit that should never be written!" Bitch, are you seriously saying that instead of discussing social issues and attempting to raise the public awareness of them, it would be better to never write about them because currently, the articles out there just aren't doing enough? Like, what, they aren't making white people feel bad enough for you? Are we going to get further in life and or maybe even just like any closer to an enlightened consciousness if we instead stop talking about shit with cuddly-pillow articles on Medium? No we are not.

God, do I have to say Rome wasn't built in a day or do I have to point out that bricks go down one by one? Pet peeve. Rant out.

deepflows  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thank you for clarifiying this for me. Good point(s), actually.

One thing I'd like to mention is that, while "You don't have to always be blue collar" certainly is a valid enough answer, people who don't have a problem with their "blue collar" work but who simply demand "honest pay for an honest day" hold an equally valid opinion as far as I can tell. As long as society still needs its blue collar workers, I don't feel that "Well, maybe try not being one of those" is a satisfying answer.

_refugee_  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't disagree with you there and I thought you made a valid observation higher in thread about how "If it's not working for you, get out" isn't always constructive advice or a feasible option. I will hazard that generally it is easier to change one's personal experience and surroundings than it is to change institutions and mass cookie-cutter treatment - however, the ease of a given option is not the only factor in whether it is the right/best/whatever option, or whether a person wants to choose that option at all.

For the happiness of the one, the answer is probably to shoot oneself up and out of lower circumstances to better treatment. For the happiness of the many, the answer is probably more likely to be forced (encouraged, whatever) environmental &/or institutional change. One kind of such group advocacy is a union, of course, though I'm sure there are many methods.

I am not sure though that an entire population can reach such satisfaction. Do some people have to be lower in order for others to enjoy the benefits they want? I suspect probably. I do believe all humans should be treated well and with respect, however, I do not believe that is where most humans' requirements for satisfaction end. In which case I wonder, how much lower - can a happy equilibrium be reached where no one is drastically down the an exaggerated bell curve and everyone is generally content? I think American society is a super drastic bell curve, and I'd like to believe such division is not necessary, helpful, or even good and etc. But I think it is not an easy thing, to try and convince people who have a very great lot, that they would be better off without their hoard and that helping others might yield more happiness.

It is hard to tell someone they should not have what they are accustomed to. We tend to hold on, simply because we are used to having.

kleinbl00  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think that if you look at the average worker in the United States in 1900 vs. the average worker in the United States in 2000 you'll have a hard time disputing that all workers are a lot better off.

_refugee_  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yes, but was that through increased quality of life/standard of living, or institutional change?

Ah right, in 1900 women couldn't vote, pretty sure we still were overrun with factories, pretty sure no minimum wage or maximum work hour laws, and did I mention the little children whose nimble fingers were so helpful in those cramped factory mechanics? Yes.

(Oh and don't get me started about the truckers!)

I feel like the technological achievements of the past 100 years were a significant factor in QOL improvement though, I mean in addition to our adoption of fair labor laws and so on.

I would generally hope that as time progresses things get better. I acknowledge that's not always how it goes, but hey, one must have faith in the long-term market, natch?

kleinbl00  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  
_refugee_  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Stop, you're bringing up flashbacks to the Hubski Drink Club Rum Incident.

kleinbl00  ·  3406 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The terms 'blue collar' and 'white collar' are always pejorative. No one aspires to being 'white collar'. They want to be well-compensated and have a job devoid of physical labor. Meanwhile, you call a garbage man 'blue collar' without recognizing that he might be making more than you.

I wouldn't have used the phrase 'white collar' if camarillobrillo hadn't used the phrase 'blue collar' because it's loaded language that sends discussions spiraling off into irrelevancies.