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comment by Herunar

See, the problem I have with this sort of thing is the usage of the terms 'Islamic' or 'Muslim' society and the like. To me (as a Muslim) that label doesn't really make much sense, in that you have various 'Islamic' societies (really, just societies where the majority of the populace is Muslim) that differ very radically in terms of basic politics and the like. It is definitely true that in traditional (particularly Arab) society, homophobia is a huge, huge problem but this sort of march doesn't have anything to do with that inherently - it is more about striking out at a minority community. I'm not sure what the broader Muslim community in Sweden is like, but I know that 40% of American Muslims support marriage equality and LGBT rights in general - not a majority by any means but very close. European Muslims tend to skew slightly more conservative (not inherently because of any flaw there but all sorts of xenophobic reasons that push them into being incredibly insular, tight-knit communities) so it may very well be that the community in Stockholm has conservative elements...

But then the question is would this right-wing group be hosting a LGBT Pride March through a Swedish conservative neighborhood and city, just to rile them up? I highly doubt it. Either way, a very, very contentious issue.





aidrocsid  ·  3408 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If 40% of American Muslims support marriage equality and LGBT rights, wouldn't that mean that a whopping 60% of American Muslims either oppose or simply don't care about LGBT rights? That sounds like exactly the opposite of the picture you're trying to paint with that statistic.

I'd say that this march must have something to do with that or no one would consider it controversial. It may be that they're using the march as a sort of argument against Muslim immigrants, but if the argument didn't have any legitimacy there wouldn't be a story here.

I mean either this neighborhood isn't a particularly homophobic community, in which case the result is no different from having a pride march anywhere else, or it is a particularly homophobic community, in which case there's legitimately an issue to be addressed here. It seems to me that for the counter-protestors to take issue with this they must think it will paint the community in a bad light, right?

The truth of the matter, I'd say, is that while what it's about may reflect poorly on its organizers, how it's dealt with will reflect on that neighborhood. If I lived in that neighborhood and I didn't want to be portrayed as homophobic I think I'd be more likely to try to organize a show of solidarity in support of LGBT rights rather than a protest insisting that it's racist to give my neighbors the opportunity to demonstrate how homophobic they are.

At any rate, it's weird to see people on the left deciding which group of social conservatives they want to align themselves with. Let's call them all out.

Herunar  ·  3408 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Considering, what, only 60% of all Americans support LGBT rights, 40% isn't too bad for a community that is, yes, a little socially conservative. The 'picture' I was trying to paint was that the community isn't very homogenous in the way many people think, not that some Muslims are not homophobic - they clearly do have those tendencies but not in as huge a way as people think.

My point is that the rightist activists wouldn't stage this in a community that is Swedish and homophobic. There is very clearly a racist and xenophobic component to this march - yes, I would say that it would reflect very poorly on the neighborhood if it reacts in a homophobic manner, but, to be blunt, you can't magically transform what might be a culturally conservative society into a progressive one by 'calling them out'. A lot of these immigrants come from cultures that haven't very often even recognized that the LGBT community exists - and let's not forget that Western culture wasn't very different fifty or so years ago. Hell, Western culture wasn't very different twenty years ago in some places. I'm not saying give them amnesty, but I'm saying they need to be educated and integrated into Western values, if that makes sense.

And xenophobes are definitely -not- people who have the right to do that, as far as I see it. Engage with the community and do not allow them to discriminate, definitely, but I don't think an aggressive approach is a good idea at all.

(As a bit of a disclaimer, I obviously hugely support the LGBT movement and I really do wish more people in my community felt the same way - but I do think the tides are shifting and eventually the sizable minority of people that do think like me on this matter will become a majority - just as was the case with various other communities in the world)