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comment by lessismore
lessismore  ·  4628 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Atheism and Oppression
    I am not harmed by a person disagreeing with me, since to this day I've heard maybe two people earnestly tell me I was going to hell.

Unfortunately, people of faith who are in power are passing legislation that are heavily influenced by their beliefs.





TheKenoshaKid  ·  4628 days ago  ·  link  ·  
People of faith who are in power are also fighting against that legislation. it's not religion that's the problem, it's the desire to push one's beliefs on others.
lessismore  ·  4628 days ago  ·  link  ·  
If it weren't for their beliefs, they wouldn't have to fight the legislation in the first place.
JTHipster  ·  4628 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This is something difficult to test, and assumes quite a lot about someone. Again, it does come down to a belief.

I don't believe that religion ultimately determines the quality of a person. A Christian can be intelligent, tolerant, open minded, everything that we as a society view as "good." I've met people like that, very, very smart people who were also religious. The fact that they believed in a god did not change their intelligence. The fact that I do not does not change mine.

Likewise, I've met some incredibly stupid atheists. Most of r/atheism, for instance, is banal and offensive. I use to be a great deal more militant about the issue of religion until I saw r/atheism, and I simply couldn't continue towards what I saw as the end result of that style of thought. I've also seen some incredibly stupid Christians, the people who fell for the goatse photoshop of clouds awhile back, or the people who honestly take the bible as word for word accurate.

These people would be just as smart or just as stupid with or without religion. Does religion play a part in shaping how bigotry forms? Yes, of course it does, but its not the source of it and its certainly not the key role, which in all honesty is probably severely repressed sexuality.

More often than not, religion is the excuse rather than the cause. Those who honestly believe the Crusades were fought over anything but money and conquest are not really well educated about the subject.

lessismore  ·  4627 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    This is something difficult to test, and assumes quite a lot about someone. Again, it does come down to a belief.

This assumes nothing. The original legislation were pushed for and passed by the people of faith.

    I don't believe that religion ultimately determines the quality of a person.

Again, people of faith think otherwise. They think that atheist/secular people have no moral compass.

thenewgreen  ·  4625 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Times are changing, I know some christians that would never say that nonbelievers have no moral compass. There are some christians out there that see their faith as a relationship between themselves and their creator, they see no need to try and shove it down your throat. For them it's more about spirituality thanoreligion. These are the types of christians that I enjoy being around.

They do exist but they are no where near as loud or plentiful as the bible thumping whack jobs, unfortunately.

JTHipster  ·  4628 days ago  ·  link  ·  
And? That isn't really something rare or even dangerous. Most people tend to make decisions based entirely on their beliefs.

Religion is a method of setting values, even atheism. Do I think that a great deal of interference in people's private lives, especially their sexual freedom, is good? No, of course not. Is it a religious issue? No, and it shouldn't be made one. Its an issue of values, not of morality or spirituality. Policy makers might value a more traditional, conservative approach to sexuality, while I will value a much more liberal, open view on it. My lack of religion and their existing religion plays a roll in the decisions made, but only in the sense that it is defining values like anything else would.

The issue comes up when religion is made the central issue in politics: all religion, including atheism, defy reasonable argument. When, say, birth control comes up, and a policy maker like Rick Santorum or others says how they don't believe that God would approve, well, its not an argument you can really have either way. Do they know? Not really. Do we? Not really.

Now, we could get in to the much larger issue where politics in the United States especially has become less about representation and more about defining what the nation's values should be, rather than what they are.

lessismore  ·  4628 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    Most people tend to make decisions based entirely on their beliefs.

And those very decisions affect others who do not share in those beliefs.

    When, say, birth control comes up, and a policy maker like Rick Santorum or others says how they don't believe that God would approve, well, its not an argument you can really have either way. Do they know? Not really. Do we? Not really.

And they would push those beliefs on people who do not agree.