Seems to me this is pretty related to the other article you just posted. When white people coopt black entertainment, we tend to make use of only those aspects which we find relatable, funny, etc., e.g. the possible interpretation of the Daquan meme as reinforcing white fears about black men. As such, when 'black' entertainment is no longer in the hands of black people, it loses the ability to draw attention to important issues. Thoughtless consumption of the musical qualities of rap or hip-hop which gives rise to the erasure of distinctions between black artists and Iggy Azalea, and the erasure of the black consciousness as expressed through hip-hop.
Try explaining the negative impact of cultural appropriation to the wrong group of white people. I tried to do it on reddit once, which is admittedly not a good sample pool but I see the same stupid shit on Facebook where I'm much less likely to say anything remotely controversial. I guess you need to take Sociology 101 to have an informed opinion about race and gender discrimination instead of, y'know, listening to someone who doesn't look like you. I got a B. Iggy Azalea makes me cringe. I hope she's not the start of a trend. When Macklemore won best rap album over Kendrick Lamarr he seemed uncomfortable. He's a talented guy but I think that discomfort came from a respect for the genre and a knowledge that he's playing outside his cultural sandbox. I'm not familiar with Kendrick Lamarr but I'm pretty certain his album's lead single was a lot deeper than buying used clothes. It doesn't just do that, it slowly removes what was special and unique to that culture to the point where it's abandoned or loses what was its importance. You can make an argument that that's what happened to blues and rock around the fifties. The article mentions the negro spiritual building the foundation for most of our popular music, and if you look at history, most every genre that grew out of that has been co opted and removed from the cultural vocabulary of black people. Even country grew out of a fusion of folk and the blues. Alright, that's enough tirade. Subscribe to my newsletter for more quasi intellectual ramblings. when 'black' entertainment is no longer in the hands of black people, it loses the ability to draw attention to important issues.
What are you talking about? Beastie Boys are a legitimate part of hip hop culture. There's no rule that only black people can make hip hop. The distinction is that if white guys do, they better be respectful about (like Macklemore, mostly). Beastie Boys not only were (are), they made world-class music.
> Iggy Azalea makes me cringe. I hope she's not the start of a trend. She's not. Terrible white rappers have existed forever.
It's so interesting to me - now that I actively pay attention to it - to see how people who are not even consciously racist or sexist people completely ignore and dismiss the views of minorities in casual conversation. The don't even realize they're doing it. I mean, it's ultimately saddening and frustrating, but it's interesting too.
As far as I can tell, the unstated premise of this article is that by listening to music with its roots in a given culture, you have a responsibility to that culture. I'm not sure I agree with that premise.
I don't agree that that's the article's premise The article is pointing out that simply enjoying black music isn't the same thing as supporting black people. And there's a problem when the majority of rap artists that white Americans listen to are communicating the pain and struggles they face, but this leaves no impression on the many white fans.
So if I understand your point correctly, it's not about having a responsibility to the culture, it's about having a responsibility to the message? I'm not religious, but I listen to some religious music without feeling bad because what the lyrics are communicating aren't leaving an impression on me.
Yes I think the article is saying that if you're a white fan of black music (specifically the music where they share their stories of struggle and pain) and the messages of that music leaves no impression on you... then that's odd, and deserves some inspection.
That's sort of the point, yeah. It's not that white people have a responsibility to agree with the message of black rap, it's that white rap fans have a responsibility to not be ignorant of black struggles. The issue is that white rap fans don't seem to care about black people and are truly ignorant of their struggles, almost as if they revere the "coolness" of rap, but don't think black voices have any importance.
Not sure I agree either. I enjoy some black metal but I can't say I agree with the militant anti-religious church burning and murder that is peppered throughout the genre's history.
There are a number of differences from white people and black people. Even as a whole group. I get tired of a big percentage of black people being thugs, of course you have your white trash but percentage wise black people seem to be thugs more often than honest hard working people. Not to mention black women, most of them act like " oh no I'm gonna whoop yo ass blah blah blah." and then they wonder why people categorize them as crazy or thugs. It's because a large percentage of them are. I'm not saying whites are superior in any way, I'm just saying percentage wise they are less likely to act crazy or thuggish.
You believe black people are more likely to act crazy? Most black women act like "oh no I'm gonna whoop yo ass blah blah blah", and the majority of black people are "thugs"? Please consider that there might be a slight confirmation bias at play here making you believe this.
It's not just racism, it's classism as well. Who is causing all the unrest? It's the poor. You struck the nail on the head with "white trash" but the average household wealth for white families is 100k, and for black families it's 5k. We don't have enough jobs. Wages have remained stagnant for 30 years. Social safety nets are repeatedly cut. So yeah when the white trash are in the same boat they are just as forsaken. But African Americans have been told to give up. We advertise a lifestyle if buying as much shit as possible to line the pockets of those who didn't and became wealthy skimming off the top. We could stop thug culture, but it requires economic oppurtunity, not just for a couple of wall streeters who promise to trickle down any day now for 30 years, but for all Americans. Otherwise get used to the trash and thugs.
I think the division between white and black America is a false one, and is the cause of white America's apathy towards black America. I also find it funny that the people decrying white America's apathy are the same people who uphold the division- for example, people that hate Iggy because she sounds too black.
I-i-i-in what way The cause of the apathy is stems from racism (and to a lesser extent, classism), not a division that "doesn't exist" (it totally does) There's a difference between hating Iggy because she sounds "too black" and hating Iggy because she appropriates the shit out of hiphop culture and people eat it upI think the division between white and black America is a false one
the cause of white America's apathy towards black America.
People that hate Iggy because she sounds too black
Or just don't respond to it. I have been in foxy's shoes many times. Unwinding white supremacy, racism and its rhetoric is not any fun for anyone. It is a complicated but repetitive task. And it is a task that isn't your job. Even that had to be explained to me. I wouldn't say "sorry" as I would say "thank you." It is very bodhisattva-like behavior, but it only pays out patience. Much like giving art to publications for free yield "exposure." But there are a lot of us white peoples that are slow learners. We were told we are actually superstars. That we deserve everything no matter what the historical cost. That is really difficult position to get someone out without serious life-altering events. Perhaps imprisoning the entire population for one year that is served by de facto white supremacy can't be done. But it would surely be the fastest.
This is probably a stupid question, but why are you sorry? EDIT: Because it's another racism argument? That's probably tiring, so that would make sense.
Yup, you guessed it. Because it's the same argument he has to make over and over again and everyone who he has to have this discussion with thinks they are so "enlightened." It's like saying "sexism only exists because we believe there is a difference between sexes." Not true... Stupid argument.
The only reason black and white America are considered separate is that we keep them separate. Every news story that focuses on skin color when racism is not the reason is why it's there, dividing American culture between black and white is the reason why it's there. Our focus on race when racism is not present is why the division is there. The barrier is false because the only reason it exists is our focus on it. The cause of the apathy stems not from racism innate in society (while I don't deny there are avid racists out there, having dealt with them myself, they are not sufficient in number to account for a society wide trend). The cause of the apathy comes in a mixture of two parts- the false barrier of black and white America, and classism. The false barrier is responsible for the apathy of white America not because white Americans are racist against black Americans, but the division causes each side to view the other as alien and strange. One group is not as apt to help another group that they see as outsiders- this has less to do with race as it does a basic human instinct to protect their group first and foremost. Classism, I argue, is the bigger cause of white America's apathy- or rather, Rich America's apathy.More accurately phrased, White America is not apathetic to Black America, Rich America is apathetic to Poor America. The rich in America, whether black, white, straight, gay, male or female, do not help the poor in America because of the acutely American idea that any person, no matter their status, can help themselves if they only work hard enough, that every American is simply a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Meanwhile, the poor in America are falling behind in education and are sinking further and further into poverty and crime- black, white, latino, gay, or straight. Cultural appropriation is a flawed idea, and very Americocentric. Disrespect of a culture, mocking it and wearing it without a thought of its history or meaning is bad. It's a really douche move. But it's not disallowed, and it's not a reason to bar people from doing it. However, respecting a culture, learning about it and partaking in it is never a bad thing. In fact, it's a very good thing! This is why I believe it's a flawed idea- the idea of cultural appropriation never distinguishes between respectful partaking of a culture and disrespectful trashing of it. It encourages separation and division.I-i-i-in what way
The cause of the apathy is stems from racism (and to a lesser extent, classism), not a division that "doesn't exist" (it totally does)
There's a difference between hating Iggy because she sounds "too black" and hating Iggy because she appropriates the shit out of hiphop culture and people eat it up
OK I'm not going to address your whole comment because I don't have the time or the energy, but this paragraph struck me as particularly silly: THAT IS RACISM. When white people view black people as "alien and strange," when white people do not help black people because they're "outsiders," they're being racist. That human tendency to protect the immediate social group? Yeah, that's the evolutionary root of racism. It seems like you're trying to say that white people don't hate black people. But that is not the only way in which racism manifests itself. The first step to apathy about someone else's situation is dehumanization-- to put it another way, viewing them as "alien and strange."The false barrier is responsible for the apathy of white America not because white Americans are racist against black Americans, but the division causes each side to view the other as alien and strange. One group is not as apt to help another group that they see as outsiders- this has less to do with race as it does a basic human instinct to protect their group first and foremost.
Well, as I said in the second part of my response, I don't view it as white people not helping black people as much as it is rich people not helping poor people. Skin color doesn't matter. I'm sure there are some racists out there saying 'I won't help that nigger, he's black!' but they aren't large enough in number to effect any social trends.
This article, to me, does not seem like a very good source for anything. The writer seems to want to identify himself with black culture and black-upbringing with all the hip-hop game he talks but in the beginning he associates himself with white kids doing the same thing he is doing in the same places he is doing them. "I’m from the small-town South. I remember so many of my white friends quoting Ice Cube or Too $hort lyrics when we were growing up. We’d sit in class, passing copies of magazines like Word Up! and Yo!, wearing tees with Cypress Hill or Wu-Tang Clan on them. Hip-hop “connected” us." Does this snippet right here not equalize the playing field for the subject he is talking about? He was doing the same thing, in the same class. It kind of just seems like he is trying to hype up a fairly non-existant problem in a very hot field of issues.