bolds are notes that I added after writing it initially Alright. I'm hungover as balls. I'm upset that I'm too hungover to enjoy Halloween again tonight. I'm mad that it fucking downpoured last night and I was stuck in Hollywood...in the rain....with 10,000 other people trying to get Uber/Lyft/Cabs/etc. I'm pissed that the cab ride we finally got cost us $106. I'm really upset that the costume I spent 2 full weeks creating and sewing (I don't even know how to sew!) was worn for 6 hours total and is now soggy. And now I am sad and mad about this. The shallow, hungover side of me wants to respond "oh fuck off", hide it from my feed, and not deal with it. This is the third post in as many months that address similar themes in similar tones. All have left me feeling increasingly shitty and concerned. One thing that worries me is that this is suddenly a pattern. I'm not sure if these posts are partially the result of the previous posts - are they like suicides, where one person jumps from the 18th floor of the library, and suddenly everyone decides to kill themselves by jumping from the 18th floor of the library? But, one person jumping doesn't cause everyone to jump - individuals still independently, and for their own reasons, decide to die. The pattern only lies in the method. Which is why it's not okay for me / us not deal with this. Obviously, something is going on that is causing people to feel this way. Even if I don't agree with and don't respect the choice to antagonistically and selfishly peace out in this manner, I'm going to do my best to understand what is causing people to feel like this. You can't keep going if there is a problem and you can't fix the problem without knowing what the problem is. Just like em's post. Just like the last post of someone leaving. I'm going to start by saying: TLDR: YOU HAVE VALID POINTS You have some valid points. Hubski is not perfect. Hubski does not perfectly encapsulate "a place for thoughtful discussion" all of the time. Sidenote: I'm not sure when the tagline became something that people are are using as evidence that Hubski is a failure. It's what Hubski aspires to be. It's what Hubski's goal is, has always been, and will always be. Perhaps it should be more explicit: "Hubski: where we try to be the place for thoughtful discussion but utterly fail.) TLDR: INSOM GET ALL SELFISH AND TALKS ABOUT HERSELF I'm also going to explain something not everyone knows. A while back, I fucking blew up at kb. It was not one of my finest moments. It was pretty terrible, and I managed to let loose on a comment of his that definitely didn't deserve it. (like...seriously...I could've picked any other comment and, while it wouldn't have justified the way I handled the situation, it would have at least made a tiny bit of sense. Nope. I like to do things the retarded way.) But at that time, I shared some of your sentiments about kb. I thought it was deliberately and purposefully pissing people off. I imagined he survived exclusively by drinking fat glasses of malice and I saw each comment as a steaming stream of malice piss... all over my face.
TLDR: KB AINT TRYING TO BE A DICK (usually) While my attack on kb was pretty much uncalled for on every level, the reasons I felt the way I felt about him were even more wrong. I can say, without a doubt, that kb does not write comments to piss you off. He does not get off on being a dick to you. A majority of the time, he doesn't even mean to be a dick. (There are times when he does - but they are blatantly obvious and usually short and sweet. They are also usually in response to people being dicks, or being outstandingly stupid and not even trying to not be stupid.) I will agree that kb likes to debate/argue/instigate/etc and once in a debate, he likes to win. He's also good at it, which is probably related to why he likes it so much. I like winning too. If I had any motivation, I would read the books he's recommended - or persuasion and anything else. (you're going to have to google site:hubski.com kleinbl00 books and start making a list.) At least then I would be armed with more than my 24 year old emotions before meddling with the devil on his home court. TLDR: HEY WHY DON'T YOU TRY SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HELP YOUR SANITY SINCE KB IS SO BAD Alas, I had no motivation and I found it much more productive and stress-free to simply not read every comment of his like he intended to piss you off. If you read them with the same respect you evidently feel that you deserve, you might find his tone is not as aggressive, combative, or personal as you make them. I know that simple change on my part allowed me to be more open minded, realize that kb is actually a pretty cool guy with a lot of crazy valuable insights, and actually will go out of his way to educate, discuss, and be helpful if you communicate with him. (Actually, even if you don't communicate with him. I think I have a still have a string of notes that I meant to respond to and never did....oops. Sorry kb!) TLDR: HEY MAYBE KB REALLY IS A DICK TO YOU AND IM TOTALLY WRONG. (really - skip this part I'm only keeping it because it took me a lot of time) You made it fucking difficult to find the shit you referenced when you deleted your account. I managed to find the latest movie thread, where he didn't respond to you...not even once. 1. I went through every single movie post tagged #movieclub and did a search for both "user-" and "klein". I found zero interaction...ever. 2. I did google search for hubski and your name and pulled up every page that google has indexed, and then searched for "klein". I found one interaction, from 106 days ago (you joined the site 155 days ago): https://hubski.com/pub?id=166843 Reading that thread, I see a fucking boatload of snark and instigation coming from you. Like...holy shit: If you had responded to my points in that way, I would have gotten very agitated with you. I'm surprised that KB's responses were as mellow as they were. I was expected to find a battle. I found him making a few concise points with only one line that is not as concise, but not exactly earth-shatteringly snarky or aggressive: "The choice is simple: Are you willing to abase yourself enough to bridge the gap of discussion? Then do so. Would you rather sit in your castle of high dudgeon maintaining that you have no need to apologize? Then accept that you've been muted." (I'm curious if KB had muted you at this point and was using you to literally or if he was using you as a general pronoun? Based on the entire context, I am 99% sure its the latter and this may your first interaction with him.) 3. I then went through KBs comments for the last 50 days. proof This is the ONLY INTERACTION BETWEEN YOU AND HIM IN THE LAST 50 days (besides the relationship post) here.: Debate about NaNoWriMo where kb covers NaNoWriMo in a pile of shit --- [KB attacks 8bit: "Never ask your parents or your friends for an honest opinion about your writing." :( 8bit: "Why ya gotta stunt on a brotha like that, Klein." Klein admits he's truly in love with Hubskina.}(https://hubski.com/pub?id=185751) :) ---- KB attacks NaNoWriMo with stats ---- You say why you write NaNoWriMo, agree with his thoughts on NaNo, disagree on...um....I'm not sure honestly --- but then we end up at one lined snarkies by both sides -> you dont want to debate it further (what debate?) -> kb, "understand if I didn't give a shit about you and your writing, I wouldn't give a shit about this." -> you "I have no plans to mute you. I disagree with you, and that's the end of it" -> HUGGIES! -------note: the above love from kb directly contradicts this statement you make: "and you definitely don’t care about the person to which you’re responding." I don't even know if that's you. I hope its not serial lurker confusing me again. :( TLDR: CONCLUSION: I'VE FOUND 2 INTERACTIONS IN LAST 50 DAYS, AND ONCE 100 DAYS AGO, BOTH WEREN'T ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT YOU MADE IT SEEM LIKE WITH YOUR POST . Granted, if he responded to you and you never responded back, it wouldn't show up in my "user-" search on his comment page. So if that's the case and kb is literally commenting on your comments and posts incessantly and insulting you, I apologize. I truly don't think that's the case though. and now I am upset for an entirely new reason. Because you just made this fucking post and rage quit on us. I went and spent a good amount of time trying to figure out where the issues were, why we have people quitting on us like this, and what the fuck is going on. I wanted to know why Hubski is suddenly a place for not thoughtful discussion. What I found was that there is literally no evidence backing up your claims that KB is a dick to you, is everywhere, and is ruining your experience. Nor that hubski doesn't want to be thoughtful. I thought there were problems and omg the world might end. I feel deceived, and exhausted. Fuck you. Just kidding. Interacting with people is what you make it. Hubski is what you make it. Somehow, you seem to have become obsessed with kb and perhaps it is this obsession that has caused you to think that he has invaded your space and is inescapable.* He is not. He does not dominate Hubski, as much as his follower count would lead you to believe. he average share of Kb's posts are no higher than any other active user who has been on the site for a bit. He may comment more and comment longer, but I don't see how his comments lead you to be unable to comment as well. I mean...just read the post and comment, man. Don't get all wrapped up in kb's comments. Being obsessed with KB is a fairly typical thing - I wouldn't recommend asking _refugee_ for advice on how to not be obsessed with him, but perhaps you can start a kb-obsessed support group or something? The fact that he doesn't seem to respond to you as much as you've lead us to believe also makes it very hard for me to understand the line about "...But I won't put up with being chased around and shouted down at every opportunity" I was genuinely concerned that kb may have turned into a rapist. But I think ref's point, "This reminds me, uncomfortably, of people who tell women to smile more....." is pretty spot on. The fact that you are the one who is publicly defacing kb shows a lot about your character. This line doesn't make any sense to me: " It's a real shame that good people can do a single thing that will forever change the way people perceive them and remember them. Frankly, I found you to be a cool guy and welcomed another developer on Hubski. I enjoyed the myriad of threads that we had that went for days (sometimes because I forgot to respond - other times because we just wandered about the conversation). As much as I'll try to remember those times and not this post when I think about you, the reality is is that this post carries much more weight as it is charged with emotion. Everything about this sucks...and it's raining again. Ah well... all those moments will be lost...like tears in rain and shit.It's that easy, but don't worry yourself over the fact that it makes no sense.
This is why I stopped trying to have a conversation with you. For irony, I'll go ahead and mute you. I know it won't prove my point to you, but clearly you're incapable of understanding it anyway.
Hubski could be better, but it won't be, because it doesn't want to be. There's no reason for me to participate here. I want to, because....I enjoy the community. But I won't...
" Why isn't there a reason for you to participate here? What are you trying to get out of Hubski? Do you not see yourself as providing valuable insights to Hubski? Do you not think you are getting enough attention? My turn to be selfish and melodramatic: if you enjoy it and gave a shit about any of us, why did you leave, especially in this fashion?
To me, this post and posts like it seem to be coming from users who joined in "The Wave of Mute-ilation" (or whatever we're calling that). Anyway, lots of focus on cliques and powerusers. In any conversation, certain voices will dominate. Bein considerate to the less vociferous can only help so much. In other words, I think people need to stop assuming that their voice will be valued as much as any other on the internet, because that's not how human interactions work. Charisma matters everywhere and no, "goodbye cruel world" posts are not a solution. By the way, this DST shit . . . (yes, I am almost 30) this means I have to wake up earlier, right?
That costume is the shit, dude. Honestly though Klein has got me feeling more personally attacked than the dude that made this post right now with his straight up Hubskina hate. So you know what fuck it goodbye Hubski, thanks for trying, I'm gonna go to giant parties and bitch about them now (and again)
Which is why it's not okay for me / us not deal with this. Obviously, something is going on that is causing people to feel this way. Even if I don't agree with and don't respect the choice to antagonistically and selfishly peace out in this manner, I'm going to do my best to understand what is causing people to feel like this. You can't keep going if there is a problem and you can't fix the problem without knowing what the problem is. While in general I greatly appreciate your hard work and dedication to hubski, I suggest that this is one area you should just let lie. There is just a certain kind of person that goes out like this and it's way easier to let em go than to fix them. There are enough of us here that we are bound to get a nice chuck of drama loving "look at meeee's" knocking over the lamps, drinking too much and telling us "how they really feel," and that's OK. If you are lucky they burn out quick.One thing that worries me is that this is suddenly a pattern. I'm not sure if these posts are partially the result of the previous posts - are they like suicides, where one person jumps from the 18th floor of the library, and suddenly everyone decides to kill themselves by jumping from the 18th floor of the library? But, one person jumping doesn't cause everyone to jump - individuals still independently, and for their own reasons, decide to die. The pattern only lies in the method.
I agree with you 100%. I tried not to revise my comment too much (notice how it's way too long) after I looked into his specific grievances more closely. One reason is because it accurately reflects how I initially felt and what I immediately thought when I saw his post and there is something to that. Another reason is because the comment gets increasingly mean and snippy as I wrote it and I don't want you all to think I'm a mean person! I'm good! I swear! I try to take a good, hard, objective look (try!) at Hubski every once in a while because I don't want to miss something that was blatantly obvious to everyone except us long time, acclimated, kick ass Hubski users. Once you "get" Hubski, you tend to stick around for a long time and love it. It's easy to miss things. When I see things like this, I assume that it is worth listening to. Maybe asking things like, "do they have a point? is that how non-Hubski users generally see it? Are new users scared away by the people? or the global feed? are we accidentally exclusionary to all people, or just dimwits? Can we do anything to change that? Is is worth changing? Why? Is there any validity to their point? Is there a common point being brought up again and again? " I looked deeply at this post, went back through the others, checked a couple things, and surprise! they're all dead fucking wrong. Just kidding. They are have different problems and issues with Hubski and there are very few common elements between them all. Some seem to be caused by lack of interest in change (i like where I am even though I bitch about it constantly), not being motivated to change (aww but I already got my bookbars bar set up...), or needing to be sold to on what Hubski can provide them rather than checking it out themselves. Some seem to be seeking attention, some are obviously people like to be cool and hate on everything, some seem to be too hipster for Hubski (it's been around for more than a year...Imma do Ello...that shit is so fresh I'll be the oldest Elllo user soon!) and others not hipster enough (I only do things that are cool before they are cool once brooklynveganpapstdrinker.com tells me they're cool...or not cool..wait...). One common one is a better mobile experience (we're working on it! keep your pants on!). But yeah. Not going to start catering to this type of stuff or changing things because of one or even two users grievances. Also, to any random readers of this thread who are doing research for your own ragequit post, please don't do it. Don't be that asshole. And certainly don't say that you don't want to be that asshole and go and be that asshole anyways. That's silly. Message me. I'll give you a full length comment as a personal mail message to you. Poor chatter readers don't want to sift through my shit anymore.
1. We neeeeeed the rain. 2. It still amazes me how concise and eloquent y'all motherfuckers can be even when writing a lot/drunk/hung ov/emotionally charged. 3. I admit I was obsessed with k for a minute 'cause he sounded much smahter than me when he replied to a comment and that can be infuriating when you feel more comfortable following certain internet trialogue edicate. Wanting to make the insightful yet just-pithy-enough response, I'm always afraid of someone calling me out on my bulsh and I'm still shocked when they do and I get defensive and paranoid. 4. Now in my experience, we're all just talking to ourselves, trying to convince yourself through others. But online you have time to edit and review your entries, creating a persona that doesn't really reflect the much of the real you. Or maybe showing who you want to be is actually more telling of yourself.
Haha! I try...I try...Expectations are high on Hubski. I like it because it forces me to be better... no matter how shitty I feel. Are you in LA as well? It's suddenly freezing! NOoooooooo! I was just at the beach last week! Come back summer!
For my hubskiing, yes. General productivity, no. Today, I'm playing catch up on a pile of code and a pile of laundry that will have me up until about 3am again.
My obsessing is very low key obsessing. :) it even allows room for disagreement and pissed-in-Cheerios sorts of mornings. That's a thing I find about kb important to remember. If he sounds pissed off go and reread your shit and see what pissed him off and respond to that. Respond to the point. keep it about the talk