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comment by OftenBen
OftenBen  ·  3692 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Hey, let's have a discussion about eating meat

    If I understand you correctly, your argument for eating meat is so that Mexican farmers don't suffer producing plants?

Nope. My argument is that no method of feeding this world is without cruelty and suffering. We have a lot of growth to do as civilization before that will be otherwise. It probably won't happen in our lifetimes.

    I'm really sorry to hear that you don't have any local farmer's markets where you can buy healthy fresh produce.

I do. But it shows how privileged you are that you don't seem to count those who don't have such options as worthy of discussion.

    The bottom line is, we know that we can live full healthy lives without exploiting animals, to still chose to do so because we can is not rational.

You have a theory, and very little evidence.

    "Hey, I'll give you money if you let me shoot this deer so that you can save the deer." Replace deer with the name of any loved one and you'll see the ridiculousness of the idea of using killing to stop extinction.

You have no experience with wilderness, or wildlife management, that's what's really obvious.

Would you prefer that there be fewer deer? That no one hunts them, so no one feels the need to preserve their habitats against the market forces that would develop them into high-rises and factory farms? That those few deer that do exist die by fang, or by blood poisoning from a broken bone? That they go extinct so that no one can hunt them?

    Obviously we value life VERY differently.

Obviously.





organicAnt  ·  3692 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It is true, we can never end all the suffering but we can minimise it with our everyday choices. I find it hard to believe that your only two options are eating animals or eating vegetables grown by exploited farmers!

I don't know how expensive farmer's markets are in your area but in Europe they're still one of the cheapest places to buy fresh veg and fruit.

    You have a theory, and very little evidence.

Read the China Study if you still need scientific evidence that a veggie based diet is healthier than a meat one.

    Would you prefer that there be fewer deer?

Yes, yes, but of course, that was exactly my point. I'm tired of this conversation, it feels like we're not getting anywhere. Take what you will from it and peace out.

_refugee_  ·  3692 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The china study is notably flawed. 1 2 3

organicAnt  ·  3691 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For those who care to read and make up their own mind. Here's the rebuttal by Dr. Campbell, the author of The China Study, to the criticisms of the book.

Excerpt:

    "My present views on diet and health are based on the consistency of the vast majority of evidence produced by a wide variety of studies. I see three types of evidence that has most influenced my present views. First, there is the research data from our own studies that are summarized in our book. Second, there is the evidence obtained by many other laboratories, a sample of which is summarized in our book. Third, there is, perhaps, the most important evidence of all, the clinical experiences of the practicing physicians who I had come to know, especially those of Drs. John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Jr., Terry Shintani, Joel Fuhrman and Alan Goldhamer. For me, these medical practitioners, entirely on their own initiative and knowledge, were advising, with impressive success, their patients with the same information that I had come to know from the scientific literature and laboratory. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. The idea works!"
organicAnt  ·  3692 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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