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comment by aerowid

Welp I guess thiss is where I chime in.

I live in San Francisco. I pay $800/month for a room in a house, which as far as things go in the city is pretty good deal. I'm studying computer science and building a new social network (it's gonna be a good one), and hope to live and work in the city for the rest of my life. I was born and raised in Silicon Valley, with tech in my blood. My dad's an engineer, he did some thing about disk drives for IBM in the nineties that was a big deal, but I'm not entirely sure of the details. I grew up in one of those $1m+ suburban houses you talked about, although we were about a half mile from the store so not really as isolated as what you described. I never really appreciated that until I moved to the city, but they're really peaceful places, and incredibly safe. I once left my car open with a bunch of expensive electronics in it on the street, forgot about it, and when I came back nothing was even out of place. We knew the neighbors, although for the most part everyone kept to themselves. Polite conversations when we were out walking the dogs.

I think there is a certain "new toy" syndrome that is incredibly common among people out here, which certainly sells new iphones and tablets and whatnot, but I'm unconvinced that's a bad thing. It's "Pop Progress" - the iPhone 6 is to technology what Kesha is to music. There's a culture here that's massively progress and innovation oriented, and that manifests itself as smartwatches and smartrings. In turn, that drives advances in all sorts of other things - driverless cars, drone delivery, eBay/Amazon, apps, etc... It's certainly enabled by the immense wealth of the region. My point is, of course we're immensly concerned with new technologies. That's what we do.

I would like to dispute your claim that 80% of Californians have never been out of the state. Of course we're both speaking anecdotally, and my perspective reflects a very different upbringing than yours, but a Califonian who's never been out of the state is something of a rarity in my experience. Not unheard of, but mostly everyone I meet has been somewhere else at some point. Not to mention that around here, most people aren't even from the state in the first place!

$2k a month for a one-bedroom apartment is insane, that would buy a pretty nice pad downtown. I'm not sure what the prices are like out where you're from, but that is pretty incredible to me.

There's not really much of a logical thread to this, I just fired of things as they jumped to mind. I'm sure there's loads I didn't address. If anyone cares, I'd be happy to elaborate.





kleinbl00  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

While I agree with a lot of what you say, this:

    $2k a month for a one-bedroom apartment is insane, that would buy a pretty nice pad downtown

Is delusional.

Cheapest unit available in San Fran right now: 750sqft shithole, yours for $1500/mo with a $42k downpayment.

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  
iammyownrushmore  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

LOL. As one of the delusional fools trying to get into one of these spots for 6 months before giving up and going to Oakland, GOOD LUCK EVEN GETTING THE DAMN PLACE.

at a minimum:

-Have 6 months of paycheck stubs

-at least 2 months of rent deposit (NOT including the first month's rent)

-have the landlord/roommates (not even like, but) love you

-Don't have a pet

Have all this the day you go for an interview, stand around with 20 other people all equally vying for the place with better stories than yours, bring some damn baked goods, and you probably still don't get the spot.

If you live in SF, you know this already, don' play. Your $800 a month would drive some people to murder.

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's all about knowing when lots of people are looking to rent. There's a ton of competition in fall and winter, but early summer the market usually isn't as saturated. The biggest mistake people make is trying to rent when everyone else is as well.

iammyownrushmore  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The biggest mistake people make is trying to rent when everyone else is as well.

Yes. Which is all of SF all of the damn time right now. I was doing this from Jan-August. I made no mistakes. Still moved to Oakland.

You're arguing the wrong thing here. You found a cheap spot, you got lucky, good on you this doesn't work out for most other people. You're also touching on a thing that is a hella sensitive issue for a lot of people in the bay nowadays, and being rather obtuse about it, I might add.

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't know what everyone else is doing wrong then, because my place certainly wasn't an outlier in my search. It was the best deal I found, which is why I took it, but there were plenty of other, even cheaper units I was looking at. Had I not gotten the place I did, I'm sure I would have wound up in one of the other, equally reasonably priced places I was looking at.

kleinbl00  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You did say "buy."

Also, one of those is 400sqft.

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If you took the context of the original post, where it was stated his family rented an apartment for $2k, it should have been obvious that I was not talking about purchasing the property. And 400 sqft is more than enough!

kleinbl00  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For

TWO

THOUSAND

DOLLARS

A MONTH?

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're buying the neighborhood there.

Also, there's this if you are looking to buy: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4124-Geary-Blvd-San-Francisco-CA-94118/2105682283_zpid/

kleinbl00  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're still making the argument that paying $5/sqft/month isn't batshit insane.

You've also mistakenly posted a pizza business as if it were a place you could live. Dunno if you noticed, but Zillow thinks that building is worth $1.5m.

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You could reside the shit outta that pizza place! ...I was gonna try and play it off like I meant to do that but to be honest that was a total fuck up. Anyways, wages are higher here which offsets the enormous price of living, and expensive-ass houses are what we call "retirement plans". When you're ready to retire, you sell your house and move to Utah or some shit where a mansion costs the same as a cheeseburger and live off the profits.

iammyownrushmore  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I grew up in one of those $1m+ suburban houses you talked about

This is becoming glaringly obvious.

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Which was why I said that in the first place. It's useful to consider my perspective in this sort of a discussion. What isn't useful is throwing that back at me like an insult. I hold no illusions regarding income inequality and which side of the disparity I'm on, but I can't simply cast away my biased experiences and replace them with others' because I understand I have a bias.

kleinbl00  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hey - I pay $2650/mo for 3 bedrooms near the ocean in Los Angeles. But that doesn't make it any less crazy. And if you're renting it, you don't get to sell it.

Let's have a come-to-Jesus:

You can go to Ikea. You can buy a shitty-ass Poang Chair. And you can sit it in your $2000/mo 400sqft apartment and it will take up nine square feet.

$45 a month of your rent goes to having a place for that fuckin' chair to sit.

It only cost you seventy bucks.

Let's put it in San Fran terms: You bought a BMW 5 series. if you were spending as much on your parking spot, comparatively, as you're spending on the spot under your Poang chair, you'd spend $35k a month on PARKING.

aerowid  ·  3722 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Of course I have no intention of renting indefinitely. But if people didn't think the area was worth the prices, they wouldn't be so inflated in the first place. The prices are what they are because people will pay them, so either everyone's insane or there's something about the area that really is worth so much. I tend to agree with the latter premise.

kleinbl00  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

To review:

You, 22 hours ago:

    $2k a month for a one-bedroom apartment is insane, that would buy a pretty nice pad downtown

Me, 5 hours ago:

    750sqft shithole, yours for $1500/mo with a $42k downpayment.

You: Selection of $2000/mo apartments, all under 600 sqft, one without pictures

Me: You said buy, and those are tiny shithole apartments

You: Also, pizza place

Me: Also, $2000/mo for tiny shithole apartments

You: Buy now, shit on proles later

Me: You said rent

You: Location location location

Me: your coffee table costs more to park than my Dodge

You: location location location

Look.

Rent in San Fran is insane. You're trying to justify the insanity, not disprove the insanity. I ain't even getting into that. Fact of the matter is, fuckin' Bay Area rents are completely off the hook, which is why those who didn't grow up in million dollar houses are resentful. Buddy of mine paid $450k for a shithole bunker with razor wire off the Macarthur BART terminal in Oakland, which was f'ing insane until he sold it for $800k three years later. Not bad, considering the $450k came from his homegrocer.com severance package.

but people without a homegrocer.com severance package resent shit like that. Because the prices are insane. Because of the trust fund kiddies and their severance packages who say "I rent a room for $800, don't know what your problem is" and then act as if San Fran weren't a case study in class warfare.

veen  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I wonder, are these rents all because of Silicon Valley and Hollywood? Maybe with a bit of hype and rich people in the mix? Is, for example, San Diego or Sacramento just as expensive?

ghostoffuffle  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Seem to remember hearing that you could get a place in, like, San Diego for not an arm and a leg. One of San Fran's problems is that its population is far outstripping the rate of new apartment construction. Reason being that San Fran makes use of a number of historical preservation laws that way restrict building code. So only a few new apts going up every year, and boatloads of eager twentysomethings trying to get their hands on them. So for rentals, not just a problem of gentrification, then, but also growth disparities. When it comes to buying, though, pretty sure that's mainly Silicon Valley gentrification. Got a couple friends there who gave up trying to live anywhere closer than Oakland because people were paying over asking price for 1.5 mil houses (which, no, doesn't actually get you much), and doing it with cash. Not much better in Oakland these days, from what I hear...

kleinbl00  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

San Francisco suffers from a clean, well-laid-out, affordable rapid transit system. As a consequence, anywhere within commuter distance from a BART terminal is within commuter distance of downtown (since downtown is also eminently walkable).

For $2 you can go from a convenience store that sells Old Crow pint bottles to the SFMOMA. And it takes you 20 minutes. That drives up the expense of the suburbs for the simple reason that you can now, like, get places.

ghostoffuffle  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Boy, talk about unintended consequences. Cheap, efficient transit, historical preservation, strong economy: bye-bye middle class.

What I wanna know is why I'm being priced out of my shitty Seattle suburb. Like you already said, no viable public transit in sight. And it's getting worse with the latest round of budget cuts. Half an hour to wrestle with 12 mi. of I-5 by car, and that's during non-peak hours. And still, people across the street are asking half a mil for their 3-bedroom with a scenic view of Aurora Ave.'s asscrack.

kleinbl00  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Because everyone is being priced out of their shitty suburbs.

1) Glass-Steagall repealed; trusts can now be investment banks

2) Home lenders now capable of packaging investment products full of mortgages

3) Investors sold financial instruments based on the derivative value of investment products

4) Risky loans become attractive investment vehicles

5) People who shouldn't have gotten loans stop paying them

6) Crash of 2008

7) Lots of houses foreclosed, real estate prices crash

So there's what you know. Here's where things get really dumb:

8) Foreign blocs and investment banks decide that there's lots of money to be had in renting to formerly foreclosed homeowners

9) Stupid prices are paid for houses, this time by investors rather than homeowners

10) Anyone who doesn't currently have a house is priced out of the market because they're dealing with multimillionaires with cash who have no intent of moving into the neighborhood.

We get 2-3 unsolicited offers a week on our house. We've been renting it happily for six years now. And they're all folksy, downy-homey, "gee my family sure would like to live in your house" mash notes, and they're all from large institutional investors looking to slumlord my neighborhood.

thundara  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    clean

It's gotten better since they started changing out the seats, but I've seen some pretty gnarly stains on those systems. I don't know that I would give bart "well-laid-out" either, but if it touches your area (i.e. not Marin or south peninsula), it's relatively nice. I've had some 2-3 hour trips that mixed muni / caltrain / bart / vta that could've easily been done in a third of the time via car.

Methinks the better question is how the hell your city works.

kleinbl00  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Try LA Metro some time.

Or Seattle.

My job and my house were a 20 minute drive apart. By bus? 2 1/2 hrs.

kleinbl00  ·  3721 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Economically speaking, Hollywood has about the same impact as the sports teams (hockey, basketball, baseball, soccer). Silicon Valley is not without its impact, but San Fran has long been a financial center. Keep in mind: The LA Metro area has more population than the Netherlands. San Francisco has a third of that... but San Francisco proper (~1m) is a tiny peninsula.

It really is about the location. That's why rents in Tokyo are so insane.

user-inactivated  ·  3720 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The prices are what they are because people will pay them, so either everyone's insane or there's something about the area that really is worth so much.

Judging by the rest of the original post, I think Meriadoc is making the point that everyone is insane.