You know what man, you're right. Thanks for putting me in my place. I'm neither nationalist-- though I talk about Armenia a lot on Hubski-- nor a patriot to any country particularly, though I was born and raised here in America. I've met a lot of very patriotic 'Muricans who are awful, hideous, vile human beings. However, I've met some incredibly charismatic doers and thinkers, motivators and inspire-ers, warm-hearted Americans who just want the best for everyone around them and themselves. Such is the case for every other place I've visited. Needless to say, it just becomes very easy to toss aside all the things we have and take them for granted, when we get the awful lot of bad news shoveled down our throats all the time. Disaster makes easier headlines than Success, and eventually we get caught up in it. I think we're alright.
I didn't put you in your place, it is very frustrating sometimes to think about American politics and social situations :p But I'm glad you liked my comment! You're right that there are far too many "'Muricans" who really do make it difficult to feel anything but shame about The States some days. I think that they are actually the minority (Maybe the majority in a handful of southern states), but they are the extremely vocal, ignorant, and offensive minority. So of course they stick out. I sure hope that the "doers, thinkers, motivators, and inspire-ers" will end up with the lion's share of influence, but it isn't going that way right now. Disaster makes easier headlines than Success, and eventually we get caught up in it. I think we're alright.
Right you are, but I'm afraid that if more of the level-headed Americans don't get a little more vocal, things really may be headed toward a bad place.
Countries are always judged by their people. I've got a theory that I want holes shot in so I'll put it out here. Lesser (hideous vile) people naturally associate themselves with things that will hide their quality of character. They lose themselves in the group - the KKK, Nazism, bad cults. Often they misappropriate a good cause and turn it into shit - I'd say the Black Panthers might fall here. Nationalism is no different. It can attract highly outspoken morons easily. Like moths to light, and they swarm to it in clouds. Patriotism is generally viewed as a good thing so it gives them a mask to wear. Meanwhile the good people - by their inherently tolerant nature - tend to rise above national boundaries and instead focus on people. Because they're concerned with everyone, it's hard to tie a nationality to them. Eventually this translates into a global redefinition of what an American patriot is where the loudest group dominates the news people see.
once you let the vampire in... I think you're neglecting the relativism of morality. Those you view as lesser are often those that consider themselves the most pure - the KKK aren't a bunch of nefarious racists in their minds, they're Aryan purists out to unify and preserve the hegemony of the master race against the lesser species of God. The Nazis were only creating lebensraum for the Ubermensch. Aum Shinrikyo didn't spread nerve gas on a Tokyo subway because they were supervillians; they were hastening the coming of the apocalypse and the enlightenment of all mankind. I think you're closer to a defensible argument if you state that those without a strong internal moral compass seek strong external reinforcement. "Lost" people "find" themselves in strict organizations all the time - it's an organizational trope. This is why shiftless adolescents are often shunted into the military. There's nothing inherently bad about nationalism. Problems occur when it transcends morality. You're right - for those with a stunted internal compass, it's a lot easier to argue that torture is OK because The President Said So than to bulk up your conscience and decide you've been following the wrong leader. But that doesn't mean Scientologists join Scientology because they're shady.I've got a theory that I want holes shot in so I'll put it out here.
I think you're right. That's a pretty important distinction to make too. This doesn't make everyone who joins a group like the Manson Family a shit person. It also explains whistleblowers and informants as people who grow stronger moral fiber - or had it to begin with - and become dissatisfied with the organization. That's much more inclusive. I like it.
Just my two cents, I think that kind of sentiment is pretty new. Nationalism in my mind is at an all time low in favor of trans-nationalism, or more generally humanism.Meanwhile the good people - by their inherently tolerant nature - tend to rise above national boundaries and instead focus on people. Because they're concerned with everyone, it's hard to tie a nationality to them.