Thanks! With this novel I didn't even bother considering the traditional route, it's not "literary" enough on the one end, nor "explicit" enough on the other. But you should definitely try it. I used http://www.lulu.com (print-on-demand and eBook), Amazon Kindle and http://www.smashwords.com (sends to various other sellers, including Kobo and Apple). I've also listed it on http://www.goodreads.com which I really enjoy as a community. I originally got blocked from Amazon, so I changed the blurb to state that the character is over-18 and I also got rejected flat-out by AllRomance.com. The irony is that both those platforms have way, way harder core stuff than my writing. However I'm back on Kindle now so fingers crossed. I usually write murder mysteries so if and when I ever get to publish one of those, I should be fine! One of the hardest things has been managing nom-de-plumes. I don't want this book connected with my real life identity in any public way, nor with my murder mystery identify, but I found the ISBNs were registering to my real name as publisher. I contacted the ISBN people and they changed it to my author name. Likewise I found that my username was identifying me on Smashwords, so I emailed them and they were kind enough to change it. Then of course you need to do all the social media accounts for every pen name you use, which is some considerable work too. http://www.goodreads.com is just an amazing community of people, so supportive and so busy. I definitely recommend getting on there now and getting to know people interested in poetry. You may find some of them will be your first reviewers.
Yes, they publish plenty of stuff like that. From what I can work out, having seen discussions with other authors:
Then there's all this bizarre stuff how you can't touch certain topics but you can imply them. Eg if you have a werewolf screwing novel you can't put a wolf on the front. You have to put a man, or a half-man, half-wolf.
classic literature gets a free pass
traditionally published novels pretty much get a pass
they are even stricter with "erotica" than with "romance"
it's pretty arbitrary - you may get a prudish reviewer/checker
even those with a slew of published works, selling well, frequently get new ones blocked
Really? So they will publish Lolita since it's an accepted classic, but they would tell Nabokov "No thanks." today. I find that revolting. Why must Amazon, Apple, etc. be so spineless when it comes to these issues? That kind of behavior is a disservice to humanity. PR folks and shareholders be damned, there are things that are more important.
I think they are terrified of cp, which is fair enough. And truly illegal stuff. The problem with most erotic writing is that it's fantasy. The people writing and reading it aren't really expecting (or even wanting) to have sex with actual dinosaurs. Or rape - it's all a "ravishment" fantasy. But apparently you have to be super, super careful with that theme. I've picked up a lot of info from http://www.reddit.com/r/eroticauthors - they are so knowledgable and helpful. But yeah, it feels like a modern day Hay's code for books.
But it's the written word. Lolita features sex with a child. There's nothing illegal about that. Plenty of great books have rape and other distasteful themes in them. The Fountainhead features a rape in a positive light. The ability to explore taboo or distasteful themes is one of the assets of literature. It would be one thing to assign a content rating to books, but refusing to publish them based on their moral content is pathetic. Sorry to threadjack your post.I think they are terrified of cp, which is fair enough. And truly illegal stuff.
There are various "exceptions" but it's still all really, really grey. For example the sex has to be plot and not there for titillation (when it's "minors"). But I mean who decides that? How much poetry quoting do you have to shove in between the t&a to qualify it as "literary"? Who's to say whether a reader is getting off on a scene or not? I've read quite a lot of erotica recently solely for research, to see the words and phrases that other writers use, it has been a completely unerotic experience. It's technical and analytical and it feels like homework. Conversely there was a novel I read as a teenager where the villainous hero "tried to force off her coat". That was it. That was the sum total of the sexual activity (she managed to escape him, later married him). Yet that phrase, at the time, was more erotic for me than anything I've ever read since. Even if you're writing it in a jurisdiction where the age of consent is under 18, the protagonists have to be 18 before they can have sex. Except they can possibly "do everything but" beforehand. I remember a fascinating discussion on Reddit where someone got banned for a "sleep sex" erotica. That's rape apparently so not kosher (even in the context of a relationship with prior consent). So another writer advised her to change the blurb to something like: So you effectively have this absurd situation where someone is asleep-but-not-asleep but that apparently pushed it over the acceptability line. For those interested in censorship as a topic, /r/eroticauthors is a great source of discussion.Joanne was sleeping when she heard Mark come in. As he slid his hands over her, she wondered if she should wake up?
Yeah I know. And apparently others, such as Apple, are even worse. I'm sort of expecting mine to be rejected from there but let's see. It's interesting how offended a lot of reviewers get though, and that may be interpreted as customer pressure. For example I've seen all sorts of reviews where people say things like "I got to 55% and had to stop reading. This book had my blood boiling, it just felt wrong" and then rate it one or zero stars. I mean ffs, it's billed as a student-teacher romance, if that concept offends you why read it? Same goes for other erotica or any other genre. If the subject matter disgusts or bores or you by its very nature , don't read it. Or if you do, for god's sake don't leave a bloody review. It's like me reviewing an engineering textbook and writing "1-star, SO dull, can't believe how boring this was, couldn't get past chapter 1". So I think a problem for all these book sites is that people don't apply their own filters properly and then take offence. And then these offenderati are the most likely to mount various vocal campaigns and cause a headache/bad publicity for the book site. (Though I think in some circumstances what actually happens is that they got turned on, felt disgusted and ashamed with themselves, and then left a scathing review to atone and "cleanse" themselves).
Well you know, that's what I figured! There is so much vocal outrage at the moment over the issue of "underage", and people frothing with rage over the idea of a 22-year-old guy sleeping with a 17-year-old, that I'm pretty damn convinced that they're actually frothing elsewhere...
I agree, mk. And it threatens self-publishing, when Amazon touts itself as a self-publishing platform. I guess they are going to the other extreme when trying to avoid reddit-style controversy. The argument can, and should mostly, be made that "We are the provider, not the producer, and cannot be held accountable for the content of the producer" but they don't want to be r/Jailbait. Not that self-published books are setting that kind of thing up, of course.
Yes, that would be a poor excuse. There is a clear difference between hosting titillating photos of real underage girls, and fiction. Controversy is not a bad thing. It's all about who finds it controversial, and what the rationale behind it is. Amazon should have a spine.The argument can, and should mostly, be made that "We are the provider, not the producer, and cannot be held accountable for the content of the producer" but they don't want to be r/Jailbait. Not that self-published books are setting that kind of thing up, of course.
Still kinda shitty. Imaginary CP isn't CP. It's sick and twisted, but no one is harmed and it's not illegal (at least not in the US; I don't know about other places). I suppose their real fear is backlash from parents' groups and religious groups who could organize and outsized boycott.