a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by Kafke
Kafke  ·  3894 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: 5 reasons to consider a no-strings-attached, basic income for all Americans

There's definitely a huge string attached. Where the hell is all the money coming from? There's only so much money to go around. So you'd either have to make/print more, which reduces the value of current owners. Or you'd have to take it from people who already have money, which isn't cool IMO.

The last option would be to stop spending it on roads and such. But IMO, I'd rather pay taxes for roads and public utilities than paying someone to be a bit lazier.

Also the "reduce poverty" reason is bullshit. of course it would. If you define poverty as having 'X' amount of money, and then give them over that amount of money, by definition they'd be out of poverty.





theadvancedapes  ·  3894 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Or you'd have to take it from people who already have money, which isn't cool IMO.

Oh, really?!. Wake up, the richest people on the planet are holding back the species. It's quite obvious that we could finance a basic income with a hyper-progressive tax system that would level the playing field to something closer to the "ideal".

A global basic income would relieve everyone of having to be in constant fear of not making rent or not being able to afford food. It would give everyone power. Fuck the vote (unless we can have a system where the people vote on ideas and not on corrupted politicians/parties). Voting doesn't change anything, it isn't real power. Basic income for everyone is more important than the vote. This is about creating a world where everyone wins. Where everyone can live the one life they have in the way they would like. Right now we are all slaves.

Kafke  ·  3894 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Oh, really?!

A few people hold a lot of money, so? A few people also hold rare video games (1 of a kind and all that), a few people hold all sorts of rare things.

Hell, one company owns pretty much all the diamonds. Because they own all of the mining operations. So?

My point still stands. It isn't cool to take someone's stuff because you want it. That's called theft.

    It's quite obvious that we could finance a basic income with a hyper-progressive tax system that would level the playing field to something closer to the "ideal".

No one asked me what my ideal was. I'd say that "ideal" is absolutely awful. My ideal is completely random/arbitrary. You don't start with a curve and distribute the wealth that way. You distribute the wealth and then draw up the curve on what you see.

Basically your idea is to.... what exactly? Tax more as you get more? We already do that. Tax a super high amount once you pass a border? How do you determine when that happens? How do you prevent people from staying right below it? Is it a one time tax? If so, how can people be sure another one time tax won't suddenly appear to take their money?

Have you ever considered that the reason these people have so much more money might possibly be because they deserve it?

    A global basic income would relieve everyone of having to be in constant fear of not making rent or not being able to afford food.

I'd be more worried about where they are going to take money from. Who gets chosen? How do you determine amongst the rich? What happens if you get that much money after this income thing starts? Also, what happens after the wealth is the "ideal"?

A better solution would be to have people paid correctly and enough to support themselves. Which is what minimum wage is for. But as minimum wage gets pushed up, the price of products increases (as I'm guessing will happen if a basic income was made).

    It would give everyone power.

Only if you keep distributing the wealth in the same way, constantly, and increase the amount each time. Which is ultimately unsupportable.

    Fuck the vote (unless we can have a system where the people vote on ideas and not on corrupted politicians/parties). Voting doesn't change anything, it isn't real power.

I agree here. I'd much rather have an online digital voting site/program. And vote directly on topics which can be suggested through that one government petition site (where after a certain amount of votes it warrants a response). I think having people submitted things like that, followed by a digital voting system would work well, rather than voting on politicians.

    Basic income for everyone is more important than the vote

At the very end of the video: "This video is an invitation to critical thinking about poverty and inequality. It does not present a blueprint for social action."

    This is about creating a world where everyone wins.

Win everyone wins, there are no winners. And thus, everyone is a loser.

    Where everyone can live the one life they have in the way they would like.

The way I'd like to live life is not be stolen from. I'm sure there are plenty of rich folk who think the same thing. Regardless of how much money I currently have, I'm living the life I want. Provide equal opportunity to children, and we're good.

    Right now we are all slaves.

Who's a slave? The guy who grew up and settled for minimum wage? There's a difference between lazily opting for the minimum and actually being forced to be poor.