a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  4696 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Why should you learn math? Because fuck you, that's why.
Most people who are bad at "math" don't even really know what "math" is. What skills do you lack? What skills do you want?

I suck HARD at arithmetic. Like, massively hard. If I can do it in my head, I get it right. If it's one of those things where i have to show my work, I blow it. Yet I have an engineering degree with post-graduate work in acoustics and biomechanics. I did more calculus and differential equations as an acoustical consultant than any other graduate I knew. "math" is the stuff you can't do with a calculator. The shit you can do with a calculator? That's just number crunching. We invented abaci and trig tables and slide rules and calculators and computers and Siri to deal with that shit. All you need to know is if the answer looks right.

The trick to learning "math" is to make it through to Calculus. Calculus is pretty much where the mathematicians say "okay, enough of these bullshit numbers. Let's dance." Calculus is where you start to learn exactly how the world works and everything opens up like The Matrix. If you keep going things get aggro. I once had a 2-hour final that started with "imagine a function", had 3 problems on it, and the only number on the page was "1" (the problems were lettered a, b and c).

I suck at arithmetic. My wife rules at it. Incidentally, she graduated Magna Cum Laude with a bachelor's in Math. And we see the world in remarkably similar terms.





b_b  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Yes, but its funny how you abandon numerical math briefly when learning calculus and differential equations, only to find out that the overwhelming majority of differential equations lack solutions. So you ask the prof, well how do I solve it then? And (s)he says "you approximate a solution by adding and subtracting!", and thus your mathematical life comes full circle (although, a computer is certainly going to do the heavy lifting for you).

Its interesting to see some math papers written before high power computers were available readily. At the time, numerical solutions were all calculated by hand, so you'll see a hand drawn graph with just enough points filled in that the reader gets the picture. I think that's one of the ways computers have helped in teaching math; they've made it easy for students to visualize what a given function means. The down side, of course, being that they've become a huge crutch in place of real learning.

kleinbl00  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
So you ask the prof, well how do I solve it then? And (s)he says "you approximate a solution by adding and subtracting!", and thus your mathematical life comes full circle (although, a computer is certainly going to do the heavy lifting for you).

Hah. I can beat the shit out of that.

I learned to build cars long before learning engineering. By the time I took my courses on steel I'd been welding for about six years (and taught the welding section of my class - because apparently, it's gauche for engineering professors to know how to weld). And I was getting my ass kicked by Mohr's Circle and psychometric charts and all these rootin' tootin' high falootin' engineering calcs and then we got to 495, capstone engineering, and you learn that

a) to do real engineering work, you take the answer that you think is correct and you stack six "bullshit factor" coefficients in front of it to get your real answer

b) more likely than not you skip those "bullshit factor" coefficients and just go with 1.6 for military hardware, 2 for racing, and between 5 and 10 for consumer gear and even then, the most successful designs are those that "look strong enough."

I've pulled engines with seat belts - they work really goddamn well. Meanwhile, we had an engineering homework question where we were supposed to use our "FS=2" bullshit factor, our "FS=1.6" bullshit factor and our "FS=5" bullshit factor to determine how thick the chain on a playground swingset needed to be to support a drunken, overweight frat rat of 250 lbs. You won't be surprised to find out that playground swingsets are actually sized such that they can support a drunken, overweight Buick LeSabre.

I decided I hated engineering when my Finite Element Analysis instructor docked us points if our answers weren't "heavy" enough (these were printouts from a server-based FORTRAN program and if your report didn't tip the scales at half a pound of paper, you didn't do enough work - something that would have been nice to have known before I imported it all into excel and truncated the last half of all my data tables because you know what? I like trees). Then I decided I loved engineering when I learned what dimensional analysis was.

b_b  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I too left engineering because I got so annoyed at the lack of a scientific approach. I hated engineering school in my third and fourth year, but thought maybe it would be better when making a paycheck. Fuck that. I worked from Chrysler in the final year or two it was owned by the Germans, and it was miserable. No one could possibly care any less about doing anything scientifically in that company, and you can see the result in the cars, unfortunately. That's why I quit and went into physics for grad work.

That said, safety factors can be important, mainly because material defects exist so often. Its easier to over-design by a factor of 2-10 than it is to perform quality inspections constantly (not to mention the whole lawsuit protection game).

kleinbl00  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I was more impressed that my redneck approach of "that looks about right" was the more dominant approach than "whip out some math and get efficient on that bitch." It was pretty fucking amazing, though - one of our final projects was to do the cost build, the analysis and build a working scale model of something capable of lifting a 150lb load 10' into the air and then move it side-to-side by 3'. I was so underwhelmed by the task that I designed mine out of bamboo and used a come-along as motive force. My build came in at $200.

The amazing thing to me wasn't that mine was far and away the cheapest approach, but that mine was the only successful approach. Here's all these 4th-year engineering students, and exactly two of them are capable of building a fucking hoist.

thenewgreen  ·  4696 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I suck HARD at arithmetic. Like, massively hard. If I can do it in my head, I get it right. If it's one of those things where i have to show my work, I blow it. -There! That's me.

The thing is, I don't know if I'm good at "math" or not because I've never really tried my hand at it. I avoided math classes in college and only got as far as Algebra 2 in HS. I was afraid of it as a kid because I would easily fall behind in class and it's a lot easier to say, "I quit" than it is "hey, I need help" when you're 15. Along with learning to speak french and learning to read music, I suppose I should add ditch your fear of math and take an adult ed class to my list of things to get done.

By the way, your wife sounds pretty damned fascinating.

caio  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I applied for a french class earlier this month. ;)

As for Khan Academy, it's been a while since my last math exercise. I got as for as Multiplication 4, then stopped. I've always been "bad at math", but was also fascinated by it. I think Khan Academy is a good place to learn. Sal is a good teacher and I really felt like I was cleaning a dusty room in my brain. I quit trying to learn physics, math and chemistry in my final high school year, so I'm probably as "bad in math" as you can get.

thenewgreen  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I'm going to give Khan a try in an attempt to "clean the dust" out of my brain too. I really need a refresher on a very basic level.
kleinbl00  ·  4696 days ago  ·  link  ·  
>By the way, your wife sounds pretty damned fascinating.

Quite.

http://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/dzdd3/we_went_oldscho...

thenewgreen  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I remember you sharing this photo before, right after sharing one of her holding a gigantic bag of chocolate chips (I think). The link in there of the progression from her pre-costume to full costume is pretty cool. While she looks fascinating, I was referring more to the fact that she has a degree in mathematics and is a naturopath (two disciplines that seem strange bed-fellows). My hats off to her, as the kids say, "you go gurl"... they say that still, right?
kleinbl00  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I think only Oprah still says that.

We took some publicity photos this morning (new lobby cards). I kinda played up the wrinkles and gray hair... most people can't believe she's over 30.

She's probably the only naturopathic doctor in the United States that was management at a multinational insurance company for a decade.

thenewgreen  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Yeah, the gray hairs and the wrinkles help add a sense of accomplishment. Interestingly enough a monocle can do the same thing. You could go for the triple threat; grays, wrinkles and the monocle.

Now here's a lady I'd pay good money to freeze a placenta: http://i.imgur.com/Io1u1.jpg

karlmarkz  ·  4433 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"The trick to learning "math" is to make it through to Calculus. Calculus is pretty much where the mathematicians say "okay, enough of these bullshit numbers. Let's dance." Calculus is where you start to learn exactly how the world works and everything opens up like The Matrix." This was the experience I had as well. It may sound cliche but a whole new world opened up before me. A new understanding.

aknownymous  ·  4695 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.