I am a denizen of the internet. I played my first MUD in 1981. I've known supercomputing since before I could read. I learned email on PINE, browsing on LYNX, programming on Pascal and web design on Mosaic.
I am a former bioengineer. I was mucking about with nano fibers and stem cells back when Clinton was president.
I am a Cold War Kid, the 2nd generation in my family to grow up around Los Alamos National Labs. I knew three Nobel laureates growing up. My best friend's dad was administrator for the Superconducting Supercollider. As a child, I attended Christmas parties with Edward Teller and Stephen Hawking.
And I do not believe in your future.
I've seen a growing trend around here towards the Singularity. Towards 3D printing. Towards transhumanism. Hyperloops. Thorium fusion. Rose-tinted Jetsons stuff. And, recognizing my nasty tendency to spoil everyone's fun, I hereby foreswear any participation in these threads. It's no fun for anyone - I piss in everyone's cheerios and the dreams die a little. Meanwhile I grump about wondering why nobody pays attention.
So I'm gonna put it all here for y'all to argue or ignore as you see fit.
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2. 3D Printing. One of the oldest sciences in the world is metallurgy. Think about it - metallurgy brought us from the Stone Age to the Bronze Age to the Iron Age. That's all about working with materials. As a Mechanical Engineering student, you're required to take at least a couple courses just about the crystalline structure of steel. Martensitic, Austenitic, Ferritic - it's not just what you put in it, it's how hot you cook it, how long you cook it, how quickly you cool it, how you work it, how you temper it. That's steel, the stupid, inelegant material that technophiles eschew, the fundamental basis of the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries. Every other material has its own tweaks. Wood. Wool. Polyester. Leather. Go into the kitchen and open a drawer at random. Grab something. What is it? How was it made? If you had to replace it, what would you replace it with? I have an engineering degree. I can answer that question for nearly everything in my house. I learned to solder at 11, learned to run a metalworking lathe at 14, learned to weld at 16, and was teaching AutoCAD by 17. I wrote my first STL file in 1998, a good ten years before any of you had ever heard of "3D printing." We used it for its intended purpose - rapid prototyping. 3D printing is a cool thing to do when you need to lay hands on something but not put any stress on it. Go back to the kitchen. Find something utterly homogenous and plastic. It might be a jar lid. It might be a funnel. It might be a spoon. It might be a pancake turner. Now imagine everything in your house made out of that. The Great White Hope of 3D Printing is, of course, multi-material deposition. We'll reach the point, the acolytes will say, where our apparatus can print metal within plastic within glass. We'll sinter it with lasers and cure it in autoclaves and it'll be every bit as awesome as something manufactured through conventional methods. Sure. I have no doubt about that. But look at the economics - a kilo of ABS filament is $36.50 on Amazon. Bulk ABS is $4.50 a pound on eBay. There's nearly a factor of 4 just in prepping the material for 3D printing. That's retail - five shite kitchen utensils are $2.99 retail at Ikea. They weigh a fifth of a kilo - your materials cost is more than double what Ikea can sell them for and make a profit. And if you wanted a pancake turner, you wouldn't make it out of thermoplastic ABS anyway. That shit's all melty when it gets hot. Far better to do a bonded silicone and stainless utensil, which is two different manufacturing processes and a bonding step. You don't have to fuck around with either material - silicone injection molds like a champ and stainless can be stamped on a press so fast it's measured in Hz. Compare and contrast: (Shapeways stainless printing requirements) 3D printing is a hell of a tool. The ability to draw something and form it out of the aether is supadope, no doubt. But the practical thing, then, is to come up with a way to injection mold it. CNC machine it. Sandcast it. Carve it. Plane it. In Pakistan they make AK-47s out of railroad scrap using near-stone-age tools. The practice is so pervasive it has its own term among gun collectors. Your 3D-printed handgun is fucking irrelevant. Your 3D-printed everything is fucking irrelevant. Consider the world of materials science to be the world of cooking. The world of manufacture is the world of food. 3D printing, then, is a spam-carving contest. Yes, you can make virtually any shape out of spam… but it's still spam. The vision of a 3D-printed future is the vision of a cornucopia reduced to Cheez Whiz. Yes, it's food and yes, it has its uses… but you're a fool if you think you can survive off it. *There's a part in the production process for stainless steel 3D printing during which the model is fragile and brittle. It's basically like wet sand. When you design, ask yourself this question: if I made this out of wet sand or brittle clay, could I lift the design without it breaking? If the answer is "no," then your design might break in production.
1. The Singularity. Jeron Lanier pointed out that technological atheists regard The Singularity in much the way Pentecostals regard The Rapture - a poorly-understood waving-of-hands and suddenly, we all get to live forever. There's a leap of faith involved in The Rapture - God will make it happen. There's a leap of fallacy involved in The Singularity - computers will solve all the problems involved in climbing "into the box." William Gibson brought up the Singularity before it was cool in Neuromancer. Case uses a "copy" of a hacker he used to know. It's only a copy, though, and even the copy feels fake. How perfect is perfect enough, presuming the technology exists? At what point is the "you" in the box as good as the "you" on the outside? And which one is "you" by the way? Lanier puts it this way in Your Brain In Silicon: If you dupe me and throw me in the box, is that me? I don't think it is - any more than my writing is me, any more than my photos are me, any more than my wife's memories of me are me. I think "the singularity" isn't immortality, it's an extremely intricate cenotaph. *So now your consciousness exists as a series of numbers in a computer; that is all a computer program is, after all. Let's go a little further with this. Let's suppose you have a marvelous new sensor that can read the positions of every raindrop in a storm. Gather all those raindrop positions as a list of numbers and pretend those numbers are a computer program. Now start searching through all the possible computers that could exist up to a certain very large size until you find one that treats the raindrop positions as a program that is exactly equivalent to your brain. Yes, it can be done: The list of possible computers of any particular size is large but finite, and so is your brain, according to the earlier steps in the thought experiment, anyway.
OK, so is the rainstorm conscious? Is it conscious as being specifically you, since it implements you? Or are you going to bring up an essence argument again? You say the rainstorm isn't really doing computation- it's just sitting there as a passive program- so it doesn't count? Fine, then we'll measure a larger rainstorm and search for a new computer that treats a larger collection of raindrops as implementing BOTH the computer we found before that runs your brain as raindrops AS WELL AS your brain in raindrops. Now the raindrops are doing the computation. Maybe you're still not happy with this because it seems the raindrops are only equivalent to a computer that is never turned on.
This one's my least favorite of the arguments you've written here. You start by talking about the singularity and then switch to representing consciousness in computers. The former doesn't interest me too much, but the latter is a neat exercise in philosophy: The difference between the rainstorm and your brain is that a second from now the raindrops are going to be in the positions dictated primarily by gravity. In contrast, your brain has regulators, sensors, and actuators. Rain can represent one model. Your brain processes sound, moves your hands, your eyes. (To a certain extent) It recognizes failures of its internal model to capture reality and adjusts itself accordingly. Neuron connections grow and die. It changes behavior in response to a changing environment. Even ants store their rules in the physical realm. The same as axons re-adjusting themselves, they refresh the chemical trains to food let the others wash away. A computer can re-write its code, too, but the positions and motions the theoretical program relies on are nothing more than external signals to what we may or may not choose to call consciousness. Rain? It fails. Asteroids? That's a weird sort of falling, too.OK, so is the rainstorm conscious? Is it conscious as being specifically you, since it implements you?
Imperfect copies aren't the only non-technological problem with brain uploading as a kind of immortality. It only makes sense in principal if you buy a continuity of consciousness theory of personal identity. So, say you both can make a copy of your consciousness, and your favorite continuity of consciousness theory hold. Say you go ahead and make a copy of yourself.
The moment you do it, there are two yous. One of you is still made of meat, and is still going to die. One of you is not, and is not identical to the meat-you from the moment you forked (no more continuity of consciousness). So, even with the most generous assumptions, the best you can do is another person a bit like you.
We already have the technology to make persons a bit like us. Most of us figure out how it works as teenagers.
I wasn't sure if I should post this reply under "Singularity" or under "Transhumanism" or even 3D printing? I have the same skepticism regarding my "duped" version actually being "me." I can't escape the thought that my meatspace self needs to still exist in order for me to exist. Will I someday be able to travel to virtual places that seem real to me? Sure, but they'll still seem and not be. As for the whole eternal life aspect, that's where the growing and harvesting of actual organs and stem cells etc comes in, right? My guess is that being able to manipulate our biology with organic biology will be the path forward, right? But my question to you is this, do you foresee a time when humans can live indefinitely or perhaps for hundreds of years due to biological advances in medicine that allow things like cell regeneration etc? Great post btw, have a badge.recognizing my nasty tendency to spoil everyone's fun, I hereby foreswear any participation in these threads. It's no fun for anyone - I piss in everyone's cheerios and the dreams die a little
-As someone that largely lurks those type of posts, I'm bummed you'll not be participating. I enjoy the back and forth quite a bit. Many of these concepts are new to most of us and it's nice to read points of view from all angles.
There are real drawbacks to living in an oxidizing atmosphere. You rust. That's aging in a nutshell - the stuff that makes you work bleaches in the sun. As soon as we committed to hemoglobin we committed to an expiration date and I'm unaware of any critter that's gotten around that. We'll live longer, presuming we maintain our standard of living. When the Soviet Union fell the life expectancy of adult males plummeted 23 years; it has yet to climb all the way back up. So much of our time is dependent on externalities. From my understanding, one of the main things that bites you in the ass is telomeres. Forgive me if I fuck this up, but they're basically "heat shielding" - they keep the important stuff from getting screwed up by absorbing the damage themselves. As a consequence, they shorten as you age. That's what fucked Dolly the Sheep - she was born with the same length telomeres as her adult donor, which means she was "born" adult. (Accelerated decrepitude!) Yeah, the patching will get better. But old people die of being old. Immune systems aren't as robust. Wounds heal more slowly. Organs function less efficiently. And I'm not seeing stem cell bits being perfect replacements ever. the NIH did a study a couple decades back where they eliminated all causes of death and did a regression to see what the average lifespan would be. I think it was like 114. That's a long-ass time when you consider it was barely 40 a hundred years ago but it's a far cry from Methuselah.
Maybe. But there's a lot of evidence that oxidation is not really the primary cause of aging, and that it's easily gotten around. No, the 'real' reason we age is because we've evolved to age. Take mice and humans, for example. Our basic biology is essentially identical, yet mice live 2 years if allowed to complete a full life cycles, while humans can live 40 or 50 times that. Energetically speaking (I know you're a thermo guy), it's actually much less costly for an organism to repair oxidative damage than it is to reproduce, which entails growing a whole new being, a being that is now also going to compete with you for resources. So, then why go to all the trouble of growing old and dying when there's no real biological reason it has to be that way? Because the very nature of biological evolution (descent with modification, in Darwin's very much more apt parlance) requires replacement. If we were perfectly suited to an environment, we could live forever. But even in that case, the environment will change eventually (or a new disease will crop up, or whatever other catastrophe), and the species will be wiped out in one generation. The species that have survived through the eons are the ones that have found ways to deal with small and even large changes in their niche. Therefore, the reason a mouse matures in 2 months and dies in two years, while a human or an elephant does not, is because that is the most stable state in which they can exist. It's an evolutionary strategy, so to speak (even though I hate to use terms that imply design; it's use is metaphorical). Whether it's oxidative stress, telomere shortening, or the several other specific mechanisms that contribute to decline, they don't answer the question of why we age, which is a way more interesting question. We age because it makes sense. In the end, the idea of living forever is not only stupid and pointless, it's downright harmful.There are real drawbacks to living in an oxidizing atmosphere. You rust. That's aging in a nutshell - the stuff that makes you work bleaches in the sun. As soon as we committed to hemoglobin we committed to an expiration date and I'm unaware of any critter that's gotten around that.
I...would like to see citations on that... Rust dissolves in certain liquids, and the same oxidation state, Fe3+, is released during heme degradation, which happens frequently enough to turn poop brown. Now I'm by no means an expert on inorganic chemistry in the human body, but this is definitely a claim that I have never heard before. Usually it's cancer or organ failure that kills everyone if they last long enough. Everything in us with a genome has telomerase, but the problem is that keeping it off is a nice safe-guard against tumors.There are real drawbacks to living in an oxidizing atmosphere. You rust. That's aging in a nutshell - the stuff that makes you work bleaches in the sun. As soon as we committed to hemoglobin we committed to an expiration date and I'm unaware of any critter that's gotten around that.
The former is uncontrolled cell division, most frequently due to genome mutations. The latter is a vague term that can be anything from cancer to gradual tissue necrosis / failure to replace the cells that regularly die. Cell failure generally results after loss of the nutrients / oxygen required to maintain protein levels and clear out cell poop. You also have cell suicide when it senses things are not as they should be and straight up bursting when too much liquid enters the cell. The list goes on and on, but I'm not sure what point you want me to get at / how it's related to iron oxidation...
I didn't much like biology. However, my father got his undergrad in it and my mother taught microbiology at the college level for 20 years. Both of them emphasized that most of the breakdown processes associated with replication and division were driven by oxidation. I'm asking, not telling.
Ah! I misinterpreted your original comment! Things definitely oxidize, it's just the carbon chains, not the iron atoms, that play the biggest role in maintaining the energy stores / structural integrity of cells. At their peak energy, they are stored in long -CH2- chains -- at rock bottom, CO2. The same goes for all the lipids, proteins, and sugars that hold a cell together, just at different degrees above rock bottom and with nitrogen, sulfur, phosphorus, and other trace elements mixed in. Now, cells are perfectly capable of reduction, too, when fed. It's not to say that an end to aging isn't possible, but really, human bodies were never designed to live past a hundred years. They accumulate problems that tortoise and elf genetics already figured out how to deal with.I didn't much like biology. However, my father got his undergrad in it and my mother taught microbiology at the college level for 20 years. Both of them emphasized that most of the breakdown processes associated with replication and division were driven by oxidation. I'm asking, not telling.
I'm unaware of any critter that's gotten around that
Barring "accidents", lobsters live forever. Presumably the same goes for other crustaceans. I have no idea whether they have hemoglobin, so your point may still stand.
I do think the future is bright. I do think we'll barely recognize it. But I also think that there's a lot of concentration on fads because they're easier to think about than incremental change. Henry Petroski argues that necessity isn't the mother of invention - when you need something, you don't sit around coming up with clever ways to get it, you kludge something together and muddle through. By his reckoning (argued over an impressive array of books), Luxury is the mother of invention because it is only when you are idle do you have the time to ponder ways to increase your idle time. Lazy people musing about laziness. That's the legacy of the human race. Thus, I look on with suspicion whenever I see someone fervently saying "all those that come before me are wrong!" Change sneaks up on you. I saw a futurist's curve once where he pointed out that early adopters are always wrong because adoption is exponential. My favorite William Gibson quote is "I think most people are most comfortable ten years in the past." It takes a while to get used to things. My grandfather outlived two hip replacements. That hardly makes him "transhuman." 3D printing is a tool, not a messiah. And when I die, I will rot and moulder away, regardless of how clever the computers have become. So will you. All we can hope is that we live on in the memories of those we care about - it's so much more important than living on in the memories of someone else's silicon. "“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain
3. Transhumanism. There was a company that made atrial defibrillators. They were bought by Guidant. Guidant was bought by Johnson and Johnson. The stuff I did there has been lost to history, but it looked kind of like this: That's a shock/pace lead for an ICD (Implantable Cardioverter Device). Ours were for atrial defibrillation. This is a thing that connects to a capacitor and zaps your heart when you feel bad so you don't feel bad anymore. They cost about $1500 to make, had fixation helixes made out of 80/20 platinum/iridium alloy and are the last fucking thing you want in your body. There isn't a device made that's better than what your body makes and your body knows it. There is no way to get a port into your body that your body doesn't recognize as a wound. There isn't a thing you can shove under your skin that your body won't pearl over in plaque just to free itself from irritation. And if it can't, it's 'cuz you're huffing steroids like Mark McGwire and we have one word for you, my friend: immunocompromised. My grandfather lived to 94. He outlived two hip replacements. Granted, they're more complicated than false teeth but they're hella simpler than, say, cochlear implants. Don't get me wrong - if you're stone blind a 8x8 light/dark matrix is the shit but the only reason you want something extra under your skin is if the thing you got sucks. Take that bellybutton piercing you still regret. Now put it somewhere you can't get to. Now fill it full of technology. Now figure out a way to get power to it. Now contemplate what happens when something goes wrong with it. Now suppose it grants you the Wisdom of Solomon - is it really worth it? Implants have gotten way better than they used to. As part of my biomedical hazing I had to read a 300-page book on the history of pacemakers. That shit used to be nuclear. But really, that's cybernetics in a nutshell - "sucking marginally less than it used to." There is nothing outside your body that would be better off inside your body other than food, drink and medicine. And, it could be argued, that stuff isn't "inside" your body anyway - anatomically speaking, you are basically a tunnel.
What are we going for? Eugenics is old hat. Liberals have been going after it for generations. The trick of it is that by the time your Wunderkind are ready to breed, you've been out of office for twelve years. People are more of an investment than Drosiphilia melanogaster; it takes time to slide from unter- to ubermensch. What about the slice'n'dice method? in vitro's brutal; most people don't realize that. It sucks for mom and it's hell on eggs. That's just gettin' 'em to cook. Gene targeting is a stone cold bitch and it's low-yield. I don't know the numbers but when your principal method involves bioballistics you're not looking at 100%. There's two forks here: we can screen for failures or we can build for successes. On the screening side, been there, done that. My daughter had a full workup from some lab eager to get my wife's business. We knew she was chromosomally clean 6 weeks into it. There will be more of that. It will get cheaper. Will we get to the point where we abort fetuses with, say, red hair? Mmmmmaybe. I don't see it being common, though. We're already cooking off baby girls to a certain extent and there's a fair amount of horror attached to it. There will always be the lunatic fringe but I expect people are going to continue having normal, healthy babies for the foreseeable future. On the building side, it just ain't that simple. I love GATTACA as much as the next guy; maybe more. It's not my field of expertise and I'm not confident in my answers but what little I know edges me towards the probability portion of the program. If you wanna have 100 kids and expect one standard deviation to be ubermensch, yeah, maybe. But if you wanna have 1 kid the genetic surgery is gonna be tricky for a while to come. Genetics is about probability, not individuality. Besides which, "transhuman" is a bad thing to be in a human race. Scientific American did a workup on what people would look like if you got rid of all the genetic baggage we're carrying; the result was fuggly. Not quite Man After Man fuggly, but close.
Genetic manipulation has gotten better in recent years. Gene therapies for two genetic diseases are already in the clinical trial stage. And that's using methods that are already going out of date. The bigger problem is figuring out where in the DNA to poke, since most diseases / features aren't as simple as a simple base-pair swap.in vitro's brutal; most people don't realize that. It sucks for mom and it's hell on eggs. That's just gettin' 'em to cook. Gene targeting is a stone cold bitch and it's low-yield. I don't know the numbers but when your principal method involves bioballistics you're not looking at 100%.
Whoa. In popular media, sciency types in popular media are always talking about "elegance" and yet, growing up around scientists has largely led me to believe that the elegance in science is often of a more brutal strain than is commonly assumed by laypeople. As for Scientific American article, I hit a paywall, but a PDF of the article is available here. I didn't see what you were talking about though. Did I find the full article? It seems so.The gene gun was originally a Crosman air pistol modified to fire dense tungsten particles.
A physicist friend of mine did some work at CERN a couple of years ago over the summer and he was totally sobered by how much aged equipment and duct tape was used. I think the elegance comes fromwhy your experiment should work, not how you have to do the damn thing. In biology it can get reeeeal messy.
Granted, CERN is an umbrella for a lot of different projects, and it wasn't like they were holding the giant detector in place along with some used gum and shoelaces. His was something on the analysis end, but still it was weird to see. Also, tangentially, some researchers make graphene just by slapping some plain 'ol tape on graphite, so maybe some new incarnations wouldn't be a bad idea.
I think most successful scientists are pragmatic. If you need to launch buckshot into cellular tissue, a "gun" is a great way to do it. I gave you the wrong issue. I just cruised the whole thing; I'm not sure where it was. It was a single-page thing so it may take me a while to find.As for Scientific American article, I hit a paywall, but a PDF of the article is available here.
Ah well, if it's a pain, don't worry about it. A friend's mother is employed by the US Forest Service and though I'm not entirely clear on what her research entails, I know that the recent changes to gun laws in various states has greatly impeded how she collects samples, which of course involves using shotguns to get pieces from the upper branches of trees. Dendrology is a lot more interesting with guns. Walking around measuring tree's DBH could be fun I guess, provided a collaborator with some nice Bs.I think most successful scientists are pragmatic. If you need to launch buckshot into cellular tissue, a "gun" is a great way to do it.
I don't think the future will be what anyone expects, but I do think it'll be equally fantastic. Will we build Hyperloops with 3D printers powered by thorium fusion? Probably not. But we'll improve manufacturing, mass transit, and energy sources in ways we can't yet imagine. I grew up reading my father's Heinlein novels. Most of his books were written before the advent of electronic computers. His heroes fly around the universe, dramatically whipping out their slide-rules. It's 2014 and we haven't achieved interplanetary colonisation yet, much less interstellar travel. But we have electronic computers Heinlein couldn't have dreamed of. Will our predictions be wrong? Yes. But it's still fun to hypothesise. And regardless, I think the future will be just as bright, only different. Sorry, I'll get off your lawn now.
* 5. Easy Nuclear Energy "You will remember this day, kids. You will look back and tell your grandkids about the day everything changed." - My 8th grade science teacher, March 23, 1989 I grew up with "establishment" physics, as I mentioned. Norris Bradbury was a family friend. Classmates of mine teach particle physics at Berkeley, Irvine and somewhere in Italy - my Facebook feed gets esoteric. And no matter how much i wish it were different, break-even fusion is a bitch… unless you don't need to contain it. Bill McKibben does a pretty good breakdown of modern nuclear energy in Eaarth. Despite being a dyed-in-the-wool hippie, his argument against nuclear power is that it's not cost-effective without subsidy… and then goes into a number of examples illustrating why new reactors have been rare of late for purely financial reasons. Obviously, the externalities of any large-scale power production schema are non-negligible, and the peculiar externalities of nuclear waste are their own thing. But the bottom line on thorium reactors or cold fusion or whatever the flavor-of-the-month is pencils out pretty quickly when you recognize that some of the smartest people on earth have yet to figure out a better way to do it. We used to do really stupid shit with reactors. nuclear bombers. Nuclear ramjets.. Hell, my grandfather was intimately involved with Project Plowshare. These are smart people - hella smarter than me and I'm reasonably quick. And if they haven't figured out a way to do it better, Captain Crazypants from Unknown University had better have documented his triple point energy pretty extensively.
4. Quantum Leaps in Mechanical Engineering There's a grinding reality about physical things that computer scientists just don't get: On the human scale, physical things are wholly chained to Newton's Laws of Motion. Computational cycles can improve logarithmically but f shall always and forever equal m*a. I "invented" a new valve system for the 4-stroke internal combustion engine when I was 16. Took it as far as machining parts to try it out on a Briggs & Stratton rototiller. It was going to make me rich, it was - I'd solved valve float. There were going to be problems with leakage but that was incremental. It was well worth the struggle. At 18 I caught a segment on the late, lamented Beyond 2000. Some goddamn Frenchman had stolen my idea without ever meeting me. Worse, he'd built prototypes. Worse, he was racing Formula 1. Still worse, he'd stolen the idea from some dude back in 1938. It answered one question - the design worked. It answered another, too - leaking was a problem. I lucked out, though - the Frenchman turned a large fortune into a small one pursuing a problem that engineers had licked a dozen different ways for half a dozen decades. I spent some time studying vehicle design and stumbled across four other valve designs similar to mine. All of them worked sort of; none of them worked quite as well as the conventional poppet valves that have been the mainstream of Otto Cycle engines for a hundred years now. The equations are complex, but they are repeatable. The math can be done. If it's bigger than a breadbox and sounds too good to be true, it is.
C'mon, do we really need to tell you that your comments are valued? Ignorance might be bliss, but it ain't the truth. I think people have the need to dream. Projects like those are easy to dream about. Which is fine and okay if it's not too realistic, but not if millions of research dollars are spent on a lost cause. On the other hand, we really do need to think of new ways to produce energy, to improve health and reduce our pressure on the planet. Finding the balance between ambition and realism is damned hard.I've seen a growing trend around here towards the Singularity. Towards 3D printing. Towards transhumanism. Hyperloops. Thorium fusion. Rose-tinted Jetsons stuff. And, recognizing my nasty tendency to spoil everyone's fun, I hereby foreswear any participation in these threads. It's no fun for anyone - I piss in everyone's cheerios and the dreams die a little. Meanwhile I grump about wondering why nobody pays attention.
Whatever, dude. I still really like that episode of x files where mulder accidentally gets uploaded to the Internet. Seriously though, I'm sure it's frustrating to get into these battles, but your sensical approach is appreciated. I hope you don't quit commenting on those posts altogether. I don't have the technical expertise to counterbalance most of the arguments (except for the artificial consciousness business), so it's always heartening to read counter arguments to what I see as wild conjecture and speculation.
I don't know why (maybe I do), but my favorite reddit comment of all time is: "Fringe blows." I don't remember the context or why it was so funny, but I think it was a complete non sequitur and I laughed for days. And also didn't watch Fringe.