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comment by insomniasexx
insomniasexx  ·  3999 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: AskHubski: Would you sacrifice your core values for a more prosperous life?

    Define core values.

I agree that core values change over time but generally speaking, and as an example, most people want to live a life where they do not intentionally hurt other people. That is a core value of mine that I don't forsee changing. Some people chose to live vegan because their core values extend a bit further and view animals as I view people.

Based on that example, I would say that I would have a hard time working for a company who's sole business was to go out and murder people. I don't think any amount of money or blame shifting or number of hours or anything they could give me would overrule my core value of "not hurting people."

But at what point do the ambiguity or distance from "not hurting people" and the attainment of financial prosperity or emotional prosperity for myself or my family cross paths? At what point do I choose that prosperity over my core value of not hurting people?

The same can be said of your music example. No one is intentionally going to volunteer to make bad music until you put some solid numbers/promises in front of them. You can have a million dollars in a years. Will you make bad music then? You can live happily ever after surrounded by great friends and family. Would you make bad music then? I would, absolutely. (note: I would make bad music for much less simply because I don't have the ability to make music, let alone good music. :P).

So, I'm going to shift it to something I am semi-knowledgable/passionate about: design. This talk is fresh in my mind in which he brings up a story of a girl who was forced out of the closet by a bad design choice Facebook made. Basically, she didn't come out to her family. Facebook changed how they managed groups. Her family saw she was part of a LGBT group. Her family wasn't happy and her father disowned her.

So back to the question at hand. Would I ever drop my core value of not hurting people by designing something badly? I know that pushing that design has the potential to hurt people, which goes against my core values. However, can the promise of prosperity (in this case prosperity would be: continuing my design career, continuing to work for facebook, etc) overrule my core value? Can I detached enough from the decision making process that I can shift the blame and live happily even though I violated my core value? Or do I decide to not push the design and get fired and attempt to find a new job with a reputation for saying no potentially following me?

    They were able to recognize that it didn't matter, that they were wrong, or that there was more good to come from going against their core values. Those are grand people that should be praised, cynicism and doubts and values be damned. There are greater things to be done.

This is a fabulous point. However, most of us are selfish. Which is what makes thinking about this so interesting. There are so many factors in play.

Furthermore, politics is infinitely interesting and puts core values + actions on center stage. Many politicians make decisions that go against their core values (their own or their stated core values) in order to maintain their position. They justify this by telling themselves "If I don't do X, I won't be reellected, and I won't ever have the chance to do good."

I would argue that they are dropping their core values for prosperity. Prosperity being the ability to stay in power. The justification of "I'll make it up and do good in the future" is moot.

Another political example is Liz Cheney and her stated opposition of gay marriage. Problem is, she has a lesbian sister. And she loves her sister (who is married) but is simultaneously against gay marriage. How's that for a core values vs actions bullshit? Prosperity in her case is getting elected somewhere. What's her core value? I imagine she loves and wants the best for her sister but she is willing to sacrifice that value for the potential election.

note: I don't actually know if this happens a lot in politics, but I did watch House of Cards and this happens. Seems plausible.





Meriadoc  ·  3999 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You make good points, but even something like this:

    most people want to live a life where they do not intentionally hurt other people. That is a core value of mine that I don't forsee changing.

something so basic that all people can agree on, I can't say I can abide by. One of the people I care about more than anyone else was held in captivity and raped repeatedly for months when she was 18 by her much older boyfriend. I am one of the few things keeping her from complete desolation. She can't stop putting massive gashes into her body. And you know, for all that I stand against, I know for a fact that I would attempt to remove his throat with my hands. I won't even go to the same country as his in my lifetime because of it.

Perhaps that's because of something selfish, or perhaps I'm warping my values to believe I'm doing good, or perhaps it truly is doing something for the betterment of this already shitty world against my beliefs, or maybe that belief is wrong, but there are things that exist outside values, exceptions to rules. I think enough exist to make any value to weak to stand.