I'm with kleinbl00 mostly on this one. The problem isn't really reposts, per se, it's dilution. We all knew it was going to happen with the last wave of redditors, and despite efforts to keep it down, which we did everything we possibly could to keep it the way it was, you can't stop that mentality. Reddit gets 6% of the American public, and they're absolutely the standard, everyday people you see on every site that don't just lack the ability to find the way the system works, the lack the ability to even see that things work differently in different places and just want to put their own shit forward to get seen and have those fleeting moments of recognition like a heroin addict for some bullshit buzz. The concept of "discussion" has been vastly altered by places like reddit and it shows here, where once we had a topic come up, somebody put forward a thought, and a conversation bloomed from there, we now have a topic come up, and everyone puts in their own thought, all top level, no responses, and no conversation of why or what they want to convey outside of 'here is me saying something'. I sure as fuck don't know how to fix it. Maybe there isn't a way. No matter what you do you can't stop those types of people. This is one of the only places I still come to because I want it to be fixed. Tumblr was a time suck that I was getting nothing from due to diminishing returns. Reddit is a cesspool but it's still a pulse on some of my niche interests, but that pulse is faint. Facebook is facebook. I want Hubski to work because it's the best site I've ever been to in a ton of respects, but there's also not any other option right now.
A confession: When someone says something that rubs me the wrong way, I'll engage them in a conversation that starts out with "I think you're mistaken for the following reasons (1) (2) (3). What was your thought process for getting here?" A useful conversation can come out of this. It used to quite often. There are plenty of opinions around here, and most of the old-school crew has a pretty good idea about how to come across with a differing opinion such that someone's either going to change their mind or at the very least, broaden their horizon a little. If that conversation wasn't useful, the second time I see the same person rubbing me the wrong way, the conversation is "yeah, you're definitely wrong. You didn't consider (4) (5) or (6). Now that I've presented them to you, what do you think?" This breaks things one way or the other. Either they've made me think, I've made them think, or we both know the other person isn't a thinker. Fine by me. Their opinion of me doesn't much matter. Sometimes they'll light up a post about what a big fucking meanie I am. That's fine. That means they're going to flame out and go away soon. Problem solved. Lately, however, the response to the first discussion is "HOW DARE YOU BRING UP REASONS." Fuck it. It's no longer worth my time to put up a defense. So you end up with an environment toxic to discussion and the only people left are the ones who just wanted to speak into the void for more than 140 characters.
You're right. One hundred percent. And it should piss you off to no end. But isn't it worth fighting for a something that has a chance of hope? We both know what Hubski is capable of, and frankly, I'm sick of running from site to site trying to maintain what's been great about being here, I'm at the point where this is where I stick my flag in the ground and yell at them, "no, fuck you, sit down, shut up, and learn" to educate the people rather than hop away to something else and hope it doesn't happen again. There are great fucking people here that I want to keep hearing from, and I'd much rather scare off 85% of new users by intimidating them with our mores and standards than have all the new users and losing yet another place for real discussion. Aren't you tired of having what you believe shit on again and again? You still moderate at reddit even, even though we both know what it's terrible. Why do you do that to yourself then? You must see something worth fighting for there, and if you can, you should definitely see something here too. So I'm all for seeing "HOW DARE YOU BRING UP REASONS" be followed by "sit down, shut up, and learn" backed by the whole community. It's not just a "fuck you". it's a stern "here are facts. I won't present them kindly as you're clearly a rabid manchild." Intimidation. The new users can come in scared and will fucking listen before speaking flippantly. The old guard here is on board with it, it just needs to be enforced in the comments, by whichever way each person who understands sees fit. Leaving won't solve it, because you know they'll follow you eventually, and I'm sure as fuck not giving up on the internet being would it could, because that's what's really happening by migrating. The worthwhile get quiet out of respect or some other misanthropic exhaustion and they lose. I'm so exhausted by fighting it, but it's a fuckload better of an option than reinforcing the bad behavior.
It's taken me four days for things to slow down enough to respond, but know that I've been meaning to respond. This is actually a function: IF: something has a chance of hope THEN: isn't it worth fighting for? It's a big "if" and it's a big "then" on purpose because "chance of hope" is a hard thing to judge. Honestly, I gave up on greater Reddit the day Jedberg left. Everything I have there now is legacy - I keep /r/favors running because I built it and there's nobility in there. I keep /r/foodforthought running because it's one of the last places to find articles that matter. I'm in /r/movies because I was heavily recruited, but stick around because they really mean it. It's heartening. Funny thing is most of the default subreddits exist to get tedious shit out of pics and askreddit. They were never worth fighting for. I know what Reddit is capable of, too. It could have been incredible. It isn't. And I fought that tide, yo. I fought it street to street. My wife got death threats because I demanded /r/skeptic be "skeptical." and I can tell you with no hesitation that there's only so much one person can do. Without a structure to back you up, you will get buried in bullshit at some point. The ants will strip the ox carcass. And at some point, you have to recognize that you're fighting tooth and claw for something you don't own, something that doesn't love you, and something that will not forget you when you're gone. And there are better things to do with your time.But isn't it worth fighting for a something that has a chance of hope?
I completely agree with you with scaring off new users if that's what it takes. The people being scared off by impressing the fact that discussion matters and that our standards are high are people that probably just want their 10 seconds of attention per comment anyway. I think trying to be proactive about it is a good way to start, and if it doesn't work then going for intimidation and so on and so forth (at least on my end). Pressing people to have a discussion is something we could all pitch at hand at making happen.
You know what I find interesting about this entire submission? The new people that you, kleinbl00, ecib, etc. are talking about are almost nowhere to be found in this discussion. I'm not sure how to feel about this, but this discussion is comprised almost entirely by people who have been here a very long time. I will say that I haven't seen too much in terms of dilution based on who I follow, but I will say that you are absolutely right when it comes to how the comment system has been altered since the last influx. I have noticed a change in "lets have a discussion about this subject" to "here's my opinion because that's what I feel like talking about, not yours".
Their not being here could be a good thing. Maybe they're reading it and getting introspective and learning what they're doing wrong. Maybe they're self aware of what they're doing by it. I hope so. That's my plan with all my long winded posts and the "state of hubski" and quelling issues. But probably not. More than likely they're just not aware of what they're doing wrong or don't care, but eventually they'll see these things and might learn. if there's an old guard, so be it, so long as they're actually guarding.
At first I had no idea how to respond to your simple 4 word question. But after thinking about I think it's best that they have nothing to say, if this discussion is even receiving a lot of views from people outside of those of us talking about it. It would be best to sit down, not say anything, and reflect about this issue. I agree with your other sentiments.