a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  4019 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Is Lying Bad?

Somehow, "people are fundamentally good" gets heard as "all people are all good always." Nowhere did I say that, nowhere would I imply that. On balance, however, "people are fundamentally good."

Milgram proves not that people are bad, but that people respect authority over their own moral codes. That, believe it or not, also implies altruism - in other words, the fundamental "good" of people can be used for fundamentally bad ends. Ask yourself - did the Nazis think they were evil? Zimbardo, likewise, proves that people value clan over country - hardly novel. It again illustrates that the altruism of individuals can be used to nefarious ends.

Sociopaths are, by definition, mentally ill. As far as "evil in a world full of good" I need only point to Dunbar's Number - the count of relationships a person can maintain with other humans before those humans cease to be human. This does not imply that we are fundamentally bad to people outside Dunbar's number - it implies that we are fundamentally indifferent towards them.

So - people within my Monkeysphere - fundamentally good towards. People outside my Monkeysphere - fundamentally indifferent towards. 1+0 = 1.

You can NOT get a negative number out of that, no matter how hard you wish there to be one.





elizabeth  ·  4019 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah... I guess I was thinking of the big picture, humanity as a whole. I guess that's where my belief of a neutral "fundamentally indifferent" humanity comes from.

As for the Monkeysphere, all it really comes down to is empathy. So humans have empathy = humans are good.

I'll think on that, you have pretty good arguments when you lay them down nicely :)

kleinbl00  ·  4019 days ago  ·  link  ·  

As am I - "humanity as a whole." The disconnect probably comes where people decide that 'indifference' = bad; I see indifference as truly neutral.

Charity isn't an aberration, it's a norm. You work your way up from there.

elizabeth  ·  4019 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.