a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by socialistfuck
socialistfuck  ·  4087 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Fuck You. I'm Gen Y, and I Don't Feel Special or Entitled, Just Poor.

Why should someone be coerced into doing something they aren't interested in just because they won't be able to pay for education otherwise?





user-inactivated  ·  4087 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's not what I said. There's no coercion, and there are many ways to pay for education if you're proactive about it. And people who take large student loans are rarely the sorts of people who have made extraordinarily rational choices about their schooling to begin with, in my experience.

And above all that, not expecting to be poor if you do make the choice to pursue your particular interests at great cost ... that's delusional.

socialistfuck  ·  4087 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm aware that's not what you said. It's the natural outcome of the perpetuation of your view, though. People can't pursue their interests because they have to be practical instead. Instead they find something that they hope allows them to pay down their student loans and subsequently pursue their interests. They have to do something they would rather not in order to have a shot at doing what they want.

    And people who take large student loans are rarely the sorts of people who have made extraordinarily rational choices about their schooling to begin with, in my experience.

I don't think that holds up to much scrutiny.

    And above all that, not expecting to be poor if you do make the choice to pursue your particular interests at great cost ... that's delusional.

It's not about expectations. It's about the right to do what you want without being coerced into something else to pay for it.

steve  ·  4087 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It's about the right to do what you want without being coerced into something else to pay for it.

You can do anything you want. Who is coercing you to do otherwise?

socialistfuck  ·  4086 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Monumental student debt with no chance of paying it.

steve  ·  4086 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm not sure that answers the question. Who is coercing you? and to do what?

Monumental student debt comes because you borrowed it.

socialistfuck  ·  4086 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's debt you have to take on in order to get a certificate that employers will accept. And you're coerced into doing a major that's possibly not what you want in order to avoid decades in poverty getting out from under that debt. I'm not sure how to be more clear.

steve  ·  4086 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I understand what you're trying to say, but coercion is the wrong word.

you don't HAVE to do any of that. No one has a gun to your head.

I'll agree that the system is broken. I won't agree that anyone is coercing you into anything. You may feel pressures from the market, or from your dreams, or from your expectations... but it's not coercion.

socialistfuck  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Coercion means more than someone having a gun to your head. Capitalism is coercive, for instance.

b_b  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Not coercive, incentivized. There's quite a difference, but sometimes incentives can make people do pretty awful things, too.

socialistfuck  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If you aren't able to do what you want because if you do you face poverty and things that come with it (e.g. homelessness, hunger, etc.) that's the definition of coercion.

steve  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think that based on your username, we may just have to agree to disagree - and that's ok.

user-inactivated  ·  4087 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I am of the opinion that the dumbest choice an 18-year-old can make short of assaulting a police officer is entering college immediately without first establishing some amount of fiscal security for themselves. I don't see all that much wrong with the Greatest Generation mentality that you have to work in order to have what you want (time, money to pursue your dreams, etc).

And I'm not at all sure about the "right" to become a music studies major and magically be well off.