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comment by spencerflem
spencerflem  ·  362 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: What Sports Illustrated’s BotGate really means for journalism

I think it's cool to use the tweakbox when it raises the standard, when it's being used to replace drudgery, or when it's for something unimportant. This is the fun and creative part though, none of the artists I know like the process of drawing a quick sketch and then having control taken away at the end.

And "presuming there's no money" doesn't apply here since Wizards of the Coast is by far Hasbro's most profitable division. (1 bil revenue, 500 mill profits in 2021) They have the money. It's not that the AI assisted art is awful, it's that (in this case at least) it's worse for the artists and worse for the consumers, and there's no reason for it besides greed.





kleinbl00  ·  362 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Our web designer is also Paizo's web designer so I've had some... nuanced discussions around WotC and budgets, shall we say. I'm not going to say "they don't have the money;" I am going to say "they're not very good with money." I agree wholeheartedly that the investment in a monster manual or whatever should definitely lean heavily into the art. I'll go one further: a "deluxe edition" at twice the price with double the illustrations would probably sell very well. My broader point is "they should suck less" sidesteps the issue. We can both agree on it. However, if they're incapable of sucking less the problem doesn't go away.

I think my broader point is "when it's for something unimportant" is a moving target. For example, if you kick ass at hands, having the AI do your hands is definitely NOT "something unimportant." However if you kick ass at faces and suck at hands, AI hands could be defended as "something unimportant."

I don't have an answer here. I've just found that debates around artistry in the comics/gaming world tend to be a lot more knee-jerk than informed, and I think it's generally detrimental to the fandom.

spencerflem  ·  362 days ago  ·  link  ·  

When I wrote "something unimportant," I meant it from the fan's perspective - some marketing copy somewhere on a website isn't going to bother a lot of people but the art in a book that is bought essentially just for the art is something important.

For more or less important parts of an image, for artist that likes drawing hands vs faces etc., I would not be offended if they Chose to use AI because they liked the workflow, it made results that they are happy with and represent their vision, and improved their art. I am offended when AI is used to reduce the artist from drawing a full work to drawing a prompt.

For years, if you wanted art to be cheap and good you could squeeze artists, outsource it to other countries, and other dirty tricks but at the end of the day, an artist somewhere gets paid and thanklessly puts their own love and care and ideas into the work where they can. I don't think that the world would be better if all these artists went from making basically no money to none, and if commercial art was entirely soulless instead of mostly soulless. Even if miraculously the money they saved went into making the product cheaper and better for me instead of lining investor's pockets.

I think that being Very Upset at WotC using AI is pushing back at what seems like an inevitable trend by capitalists to make the world worse. I have a friend who makes marketing videos. Recently, he has been told to make them twice as quickly, essentially forcing the backgrounds to be made with AI (and ending up fine but worse that it would have been otherwise). Before AI that wouldn't have been possible, if you hire someone skilled you get good work or nothing.

I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn. If you're indie (as in, actually independent) and choose to use AI, then cool for you. But any use of AI from a company, especially a big publicly traded one, reeks of it being used against the artists will. Unlike the Thundercats reboot, a lot of the outrage against Stable Diffusion etc. is coming from artists.

kleinbl00  ·  361 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I think that being Very Upset at WotC using AI is pushing back at what seems like an inevitable trend by capitalists to make the world worse.

I think this is insightful, and I think the important aspect is agency. Did you use AI because it made things better? Fine. Did you use AI because it only made things cheaper? Well the end effect is your product is cheaper.

I also think too many people get wrapped around the wheel over the tools, rather than the intent, and the more fundamentally evil you are, the quicker people will use any excuse to call you out.