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comment by b_b
b_b  ·  4589 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Your Tax Dollars Hard at Work
Good question. I don't think the mathematics of a flat tax makes sense. Incomes don't really scale linearly, but a flat tax does. By that I mean that 1) the basic expenses of the rich and poor are relatively similar (we all need food, shelter, gas, etc), so the poor person is already burdened heavier since they have to spend a vastly higher proportion of their income on everyday expenses. A flat tax is therefore disproportionately higher the less income one has, not proportionately equal, as proponents claim. 2) Richer people have a lot more to invest (which is good, we need investment), but growth on investments is exponential. So, you have a case where tax scales linearly, while incomes scale exponentially, which leads to the rich getting way richer, and the not-so-rich and poor becoming stagnant. This is basically the situation we've had since the marginal rates have fallen so heavily since the mid-late 80s. As evidence, wealth aggregation has accumulated to levels not seen since just before the Great Depression; the richest 1% now hold something around 23% of our national wealth. This isn't sustainable, since the middle class needs to spend to keep the economy going (growing, too).

Furthermore, there is a stabilizing benefit to a progressive income tax. When times are good, more people enter into the high tax bracket, and speculation is discouraged. When times are bad, the tax is automatically scaled back for people whose incomes have dropped. The effect is a calming one, since a booming economy can be restrained, and a lagging one can be kick started (with perhaps some additional tax cut or spending stimulus).

I am all for getting rid of as many tax credits as possible, as I don't think the gov't should be telling us what to do. I would prefer a lower tax rate to my mortgage deduction. I think the gov't should tax behaviors that are basically considered universal negatives (smoking, pollutants, etc), but that they shouldn't actively encourage this or that specific behavior by paying us for it. For example if they want a fleet of cars with better fuel economy, raise the gas tax, don't give the guy with a Prius a tax credit. That's my two cents on taxes.





hootsbox  ·  4588 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Good discussion B_B1, but we don't have a flat tax now (or anything close to it) because of all the deductions and loopholes. With a real "flat tax" the tax payments are scalable: if you make $1M a year and the tax is 20%, then you pay $200K in taxes. If you make $100K a year, you pay $20K in taxes. If you make $50K a year, you pay $10K in taxes. I do believe that there needs to be an exemption (and minimum tax of a small percentage so that everyone has "skin in the game") and to avoid the 48% of the "gamers" we have now that take everything the governments gives, but give absolutely nothing to the pot! I don't know exactly that point, but let’s say $35K and under for a starting point. Those folks have to pay around $1K a year in taxes. This is scalable, everyone pays the same "fair" amount, and the income to the federal and state governments is much more predictable and better able to fit into a real "zero" based budgeting process.

As to mortgages and charities, it has been studied that getting rid of mortgage deductions would actually spur homeownership because the people have more disposable income in their pockets, or at least know what their tax expenditures are to better plan a savings plan for down payments. The same could hold true for charities. I have looked at plans that leave only those two in place, and that may be a good compromise, but cut all the other deductions and loopholes.

b_b  ·  4588 days ago  ·  link  ·  
For the most part I agree that if you make X, you should pay Y. Take three guys in their 30s, each are making $50,000, but one has 2 kids, one has a mortgage, and one is a single renter. The guy who is the renter probably lives the most carefree lifestyle, and thus likely is least burdensome on the system, but he definitely has the highest tax bill, because he only gets a standard deduction; the system is backwards, if anything!

Charities are a tough one. If I didn't get a deduction for the couple hundred bucks I give to charitable organizations every year, I would still give. Its such a small amount of money that I don't really care too much about the tax savings. But a lot of charities or non-profits are sustained by massive contributions from very wealthy people. For instance, in the hospital in which I work there is a public area that honors anyone who has given more than $1,000,000. These people absolutely would not give that kind of cash if it weren't tax deductible. It would be harmful to a lot of good organizations if the charitable deduction were taken away, but you can't really say that my $100 isn't deductible but her/his $100,000 is. For that reason, I would leave the charity deduction.

Europe is a good example. They don't have charitable deductions in any Western European country, and the result is that all the art museums, hospitals, food banks, etc. are run by the governments for the most part. I don't like the look of that for the US, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say you probably don't either.