You're getting all wrapped up in justification, validation and morality. Just a small example: Bush invited Taliban delegates to the White House in 2000 for their work in eradicating opium. I'm not fan of the Taliban and have been actively not a fan since 1997; Glamour Magazine (of all places) suggested embargoes against Afghanistan for their treatment of women five years before 2001 but their calls fell on deaf ears (those were our freedom fighters we were talking about). Benezir Bhutto warned about the Taliban before they were the Taliban in a speech to the UN in 1991 (something something "sowing dragon's teeth"). Nobody cared.

That doesn't mean the Taliban aren't objectively bad. I'm not here defending the Taliban. I'm here pointing out that there were ample reasons to knock out the Taliban before September 11 but nobody gave a shit. I'm arguing that if the purpose is to get Osama bin Laden, invading Afghanistan was a failure. I'm arguing that if the purpose was to dethrone the Taliban, invading Afghanistan was a failure.

My point - which you seem uninterested in engaging- is that the US practices aggressive, provocative foreign policy that gives us a lot of USS Maine/Gulf of Tonkin outcomes whenever we need them. "the Chinese do all sorts of provocative things" is the kind of statement you need to back up - China, since the fall of Chiang Kai Shek, has been focused domestically and on its surrounding territories. They've invaded Vietnam, yeah - but they sure haven't invaded Panama. They haven't invaded Grenada. Our foreign policy is not defensive.

I'm an American. I benefit from this aggressive foreign policy. But I also know there are two sides to every story and that the good/evil narrative put forth by Americans is not held in high esteem in the rest of the world. It's much easier to understand someone's actions when you put yourself in their shoes and the shoes of every other country on the planet get their toes stepped on unequally by America. We're a big-footed dance partner. I'm happy to discuss that.

But if you'd rather wave the flag than discuss specifics, I don't see that there's much point in talking.